NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

What I like about this part of NC's argument style is that she stands in front of a zealot, says all kinds of heresies the zealot has not been presented with before, and, were they to be, would shout down in a greatly agitated state, and this gets the zealot to say absurd things.

Don't know whether she's being strategically stupid or is just genuinely very hard of thinking, but... Gosh this is a bad look for her.

Lord knows.

Fife NHS is so strapped for resources that women's health has suffered. In addition, there's a backlog for hip replacements and cataract appointments. (For the latter, I'm informed that they're prioritising people who are still working - relevant because most cataract patients are older.)

IB - Less of a risk, except for Isla Bryson

That's unexpected from her, drawing attn to the TW case that peaked so many people.
Wasn't a reference to Isla Bryson supposed to be one of SPs offences?

Is that why it popped into IB's mind?

I'm not sure why but I had hopes she would be different. But she seems to be a total handmaiden and full on TWAW. I guess it was silly of me to expect anything else of a young EDI lead.

But really, this is all just so painful. Completely brainwashed. This is just one of me reasons I couldn't bear working with these people and had to leave.

I really am struggling with the fact she claims not to know of the stats and evidence that have been in the public domain for ages now. Someone in her position (and salary) should be up to date with these things. What kind of CPD are they even doing?

Ode to NC

Best line of today -
NC But DU looks male.
No fucking about!

TW less of a risk than men (except for Isla Bryson). I’d Love to know her rationale. Is it only convicted rapists at the centre of a national news furore that are exceptions?

She was very very clear that NHSFife were no longer part of scheme, but less certain on what the scheme actually was. She was perhaps on AL whenever Stonewall tried to call.

Naomi says "But Dr Upton looks male"

Somewhere a loud scream is heard, followed by the crash of crockery against a wall and the stamping of pink stockinged feet.

This is just Operation Let Them Speak but in a legal setting.

I don’t think Isla is aware of what an absolutely mahoosive clanger she’s just dropped there. Naomi set her a trap and she walked right in to it. This is carnage.

IB When you talk c tw and tm risk is significantly less.
IB TW are different from other men in level of threat they present

Where is IB's evidence of this?

The evidence from prison populations does not seem to support the assertions

Some aspiring journalist could do an information request to find out how much money is being spaffed on this stuff. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but perhaps we need a Uk DOGE to clean it all up

IB "TW are different from other men in level of threat they present"

They aren't though. That's the whole issue. Once that is grasped surely the whole house of cards comes crumbling down.

Just
Keep
Breathing
...
Must
Not
Scream

Dear God in Heaven above, how can she utter such complete drivel!

TW are less of a risk except for all the risky ones.

It reminds me of "if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs."

BettyBooper · Today 14:22
From TT
[missed]
NC men generally stronger/more of a threat to women.
IB When you talk c tw and tm risk is significantly less.
NC You are saying men in general are greater threat to women than vice
IB TW are different from other men in level of threat they present

Wait, did she say that transwomen are different from other men? Is that a quote?

So she admits that Beth Upton is a man?

😰 😂

I thought the same thing.

SP didn't actually bring IB up, but BU reported her for bullying because BU presumed she had been compared to IB because SP said something about women's prisons.

😂😂😂They really do need to give us back the laughing emoji for the next week or so

I genuinely can't believe IB mentioned Isla Bryson without prompting. Trying to get ahead of a potential question, perhaps? But all it's done is cement the image of that person in everybody's mind.
Bad move.

'Operation Let Them Allocute'?😃

From TT:
IB: TW are different from other men in the level of threat they present.

If this is an accurate transcription and she really did say 'other men', how can she also claim TW are women if they say so? Mind you, lots of contradictions so far.

That’s almost a Haiku!

Interesting that she said “tw are different from OTHER men.”

Shouldn’t she have said “tw are different from men”?

Or is she referring only to the tw that “don’t pass” and the ones without a GRC?