NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

I think she was, or thereabouts

Was her first job after uni not as a Covid contact tracer ?

Exactly!

Look what happens when you bring up your concerns ....

From TT

IB No
NC efusal to provide sss is conduct related to sex
IB yes
JR That's a legal q. She's not a lawyer.
NC It's a practical q. Whether ppl are m or f and who uses which space.
IB Interlinked with gender, if practice give t ppl access to space that are sex specific
[they agree gender reassignment is PC]
NC Beth Upton is what some ppl see as a tw.
IB Yes
NC Wants to be seen and treated as a woman.
IB That's your definition. Is a tw.
NC Do you agree lots of ppl say tw are men who want to be seen as women
IB y

She should be sacked on the basis of what she's said today for gross negligence.

2 minutes ago she was saying "I don't judge"

SP did raise it with line management though. And got the brush off.

Seemed reasonable unless you give it any deep thought.

In all of these cases where they mysteriously didn't take notes I just keep thinking 'what did you think was going to happen'?!

Isla seems oblivious to what was actually going on in the hospital wards using Isla's advice

From TT

NC So someone who thinks that will see DU as male
IB y
NC Sex realist person will see DU as a man - seeing sex, not interested in gender.
IB Y
NC A woman doesn't need to hold a thought-out philosophical position to see DU as a man
IB Ppl's views on gender will also be a spectrum

From TT

IB If someone has a concern should raise it with their management and steps would then be taken.

Yep, we'll call them a bigot and try to get them fired?

She got suspended for it!

She looks like she might have been in university at the start of the pandemic.

She's 27. Entirely likely that she was at Uni at the start of the pandemic.

I can't find the image (I think it's on LinkedIn) but her work history is barmaid, COVID contact tracer and then this job.

She seems to have public health qualifications but no qualifications or experiences in Equality information/advising/law.

Apparently she's deleted her LinkedIn profile so unless someone has screenshot a copy of it before she did, her exact credentials are a mystery.

Would have thought a law degree (and many years life experience) would help in this area of work but the Twitterati are saying she doesn't have one.

EDIT: From Wings of Scotland:

"(Bumba is a 29-year-old immunology graduate and former bartender who ditched the challenging and gruelling field of vaccine development for a rather cushier number in pronoun-policing for £40-47,000 a year, somewhat more than the £31,000 average wage for staff nurses like Sandie Peggie, who’s been in the profession for longer than Bumba has been alive.)"

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/bumbafife.jpg

The importance of the SC ruling - this line of qq in the past would have been 'well, that's just your opinion, my opinion is TWAW so..'

Isla was completely oblivious to Stonewall.

Isla was completely oblivious to the Equality Act and obligations to women.

Is there anything that Isla did do that would fall squarely under the remit of her job?

What did she actually DO?

From TT

NC GI different from sex - someone who is naive to all that might just see what others would call a tw as a man dressing as a woman. Their eyes would say a man in woman's clothes.
IB But there will be ppl who pass and no one would be the wise.
NC But DU looks male

😬

Perfected the art of looking busy I presume

Make the tea?

I think I screenshotted it. I'll have a wee look...

From Scottish Herald

Ms Cunningham asks if Ms Bumba considered whether her advise - that trans people can use the facilities of their acquired gender - might expose women to sexual harassment.
"There was no reason for me to think that would happen in Fife," she replied.
"None of the other policies that had been in place for many years had resulted in that."

Let's all move to Fife - a harassment-free zone.

No punches held here by NC.

from the Herald
2:01pm
Ms Cunningham is asked that while Ms Bumba is not expected to be a lawyer in her capacity as Equality and Human Rights Lead, would it be fair to suggest she should have a "reasonable grasp" of equality and human rights laws.
"Yes, that's fair," replies Ms Bumba.

And is that based on any evidence, like an equality impact assessment Ms Bumba? Or just your ignorant wishful thinking?

From TT

IB That's your opinion
NC Take a hypothetical person -
JR She's already answered. Some ppl pass and would be none the wise.
NC Your unwritten policy the board puts women to. Man are bigger and stronger than w
IB A bit. Can't generalise.
NC 98% of sexual crime is committed by men. generally well known
IB y
NC Men generally more of a threat physically to women.
IB Y
NC And only men capable of rape
IB No Not true
NC Do you include tw in that
IB no.
NC Will address in subs

😬😬

I think it's BA in Biomedical Science followed by Masters in Public Health