Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

NC: Why would you recruit non-binary people who don't identify as women.

KH: We'd go by the passport.

Haven’t read RTWT but, re genders in Spanish, it is a fact that the word for pregnant, “Encinta” does not have a masculine form, even if you want to say “Men don’t get pregnant”.

Into the contortions of NB people but only with an f on their passport.

NC: presumably you wouldn't employ a NB person as they wouldn't consider themselves to be a woman. (Witness agrees)

NC establishes that ERCC could only employ a NB person if they Self ID'd as a woman at the time they applied for the job (and had a passport with Female on it).

It is tempting Naomi. Only if you had another couple of hours.

It's tempting 😂I think we all know how that would conclude.

How can they say they're a woman only organisation then if someone is NB? That's not adhering to their own policy, right? They shouldn't be employed there any more. They can't tell service users it's only women by their own batshittery.

Even NC couldn't formulate a question involving a male non-binary person and the intersection of that with the policies of ERCC.

KH our trans inclusive pol is clear on website and people interacting with org would know what that meant

Do they? Evidence on this a) suggests otherwise (thanks Joey Barton) b) what happens to women who aren't happy with this?

Her response is one of a tone deaf middle class educated person (straight out of uni) who doesn't understand a) some people have much lower understanding b) refuses to engage with those who are unhappy.

KH our trans inclusive pol is clear on website and people interacting with org would know what that meant

How do they know? Have they ever asked?

She obviously decided the time was limited and to explore a man with a f on his passport identifying as non binary was not worth the time!I

Don't blame her

'Trans inclusive' means 'possible surprise penis', I wish they'd spell this out more clearly tbh.

That's why they've gone with the line 'no men work here' which really means 'no person that identifies as a man works here, and all people have F in their passport'.

Yes this is what the privilege of not knowing what it's really like for disadvantaged women looks like.

As if everyone's going to read the policies and word salad (or even have the literacy to do so) before seeking help.

Zey is so out of touch with service users it's untrue.

KH is being asked about the significance of RA being called transphobic. KH seems wholly unconcerned about any adverse impact on RA.

The way the witnesses go on about the trans inclusion policy it's obvious that there was room for nothing else

We need a new thread!

OMG this is so so shocking and wrong.

There is already a new one @GCITC

.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4992537-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-5

As if everyone's going to read the policies and word salad (or even have the literacy to do so) before seeking help.

Is the first question you ask a rape survivor 'have you read the policies on our website'?

They say they believe TWAW but they'd practice the principle that TMAW if they applied for the job as a woman and then transitioned...

So they really DON'T believe that you've changed sex. Otherwise they couldn't do this. It'd be impossible.

So they really DON'T believe that you've changed sex. Otherwise they couldn't do this. It'd be impossible.

Precisely.

Cake and eat it