Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Is KH time wasting?

Witness needs to understand the difference between imply and infer. We can infer from a document without knowing what the writer was implying.

"We don't have any men working at ERCC"

See my earlier questions about the failure of the board to follow up on aspects of the disciplinary process.

She admits its her first time doing disciplinary and she sought advice over it. Which also means she very very easily could have missed things which weren't text book and wouldn't necessarily think to do follow up - she's the most junior of the board members and least experienced.

Question: Was she left to deal with this alone and why was no one else also double checking given the level of her inexperience?

We don't have any men working at ERCC

AGAIN

NC might holding wrong views amount to breach of your trans incl policy

KH not holding views, no. About how one behaves and talks

NC so why does nico inc stuff re RA views

KH don't know for nico

NC asking you for inferences tribunal can draw

KH your phrasing of q is making is confusing for me

NC nico has said staff concerned c RA views. Fact nico has incl that support -inference is that nico think having these views may be relevant to disciplinary

KH no. we are employer, being safe space for minority groups.

NC ercc purports to be woman-only org

KH we have no men working at ercc.

Women only on Tuesdays. Flipping heck, worse than the swimming pool.

"Some people think that." in response to NC's precis of sex realism. Real teenage truculence there. 😂

NC Says ercc has no men on staff

KH correct

NC some people think anyone with male body is man, and vv, and only two categories from birth and can't change that

KH some people say that

NC so you are not being clear

KH our trans inclusive pol is clear on website and people interacting with org would know what that meant

NC: you will be aware that there are people who think you can only be male and female.
Witness: some people think that

She must move in very limited circles if she thinks only some people think that.

God waffle central and reciting the mantras

She sounds like she's been briefed to shoehorn in some flimsy good PR.

NC you are saying ercc doesn't employ men, plus your trans incl on website, makes it clear

KH we don't have any men working at ercc

NC would that be clear to su

KH yes in combination with their initial contact with ercc and meet their sw . In adherence with national service standards

NC some su might not have all the privileges of education that you have

KH that's where the initial contact meeting comes in. As a board member it's not my responsibility to have a close relation with how that operates

She sounds like a politician

KH is basically doing a puff piece for how wonderful ercc are in meeting su needs

Another witness that is perfectly happy to hide the fact that they employ a person who had not been a woman for all of their life who works as not only the CEO but as a support worker.

They should be bloody ashamed of themselves the gaslighting toads

KH we recruit using women-only exemption in Eq Act - on self id

It would be interesting to do a Google search on KH in a decade to see where she ends up. Politics wouldn't surprise me.

Yes, sounds like she thinks she's making a promotion video for ERCC.

They are misusing the exception. MW is a legal male.

Witness expects passport to say female

They really don't know how easy it is to get a female passport do they

NC tries to interrupt

KH can-i-just-finish-please-thank-you
and is still talking

Thread #5:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4992537-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-5

She does do very good waffle and blurb

😘