Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 10

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)

To come?
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

So S Clark thinks women have to have trauma before being allowed single sex spaces. Thanks, Steve.

That it's a "mental health issue"

No, dear. You come at it from a male perspective.

Stephen Clark - women wanting single sex spaces are irrational.

"I think I come at it more from an international human rights perspective"

Good god, I thought he was coming to his senses then. But no, only PTSD and 'other mental health conditions' would mean women would be justified in objecting to male bodies in a single-sex space. 🙄

Another beardy woke bro.

Don't think anyone need a transcription of this, garbled or not.

Omg, am I watching as a man outlines the narrow selection of women he will allow to have a reaction to a male body in a single sex female space? They have to be mentally unwell to have a reaction and he may concede that is allowed?

Anyone else having a reaction to that male body in their single sex female space is irrational...?!

SC basically saying that the bonkers thing he was recorded as saying a few years back isn't really something he was advancing, ie women recognising male bodied people as male bodied people in single sex spaces is "irrational".

Yeah, right - he's wearing his lawyers hat, not his 'typical woke bro twat' hat.🤨

That's nice we're not 'irrational'.
He's very reluctant to say one way or the other.
Maybe he watched Mr Renton's evidence.
At the time he said GC feminists were transphobic says BC.
He can't exactly recall the nuances.

"I think I come at it more from an international human rights perspective"

That's nice dear.

Judge Goodman gave a very eloquent look there….

SC - also agreed with Brewer that GC feminists wanting single sex spaces are transphobic. And trying very, very hard to say that isn't what he meant.

Right, he thinks that gender critical beliefs are transphobic but he doesn't think that at the same time.

Did anyone else catch an eye roll from EJ when SC said he didn't mean that GC beliefs were transphobic?

Mr. Clark, we know you would like to make it complicated, nuanced, and philosophical, but it's actually super simple

SC looking to distance GCC from Mermaids. Interesting.

That's because he's got two brains

Ooh accidentally stumbled into chairing a meeting with mermaids. No idea what mermaids is or what their position is

So in the safety of their echo chamber plotting to change laws without a thought for who might be impacted - he's happy to say that GC views are transphobic. And join in with Michelle brewer. But in public he's not.

He's a member of the TRWG but has never followed Mermaids closely.

@NonHypotheticalLurkingParent

😂Of course. It's so obvious now.

SC. Answers. Question. About. Mermaids. Having. A. Controversial. Position. On. Affirmation. Of. Children. One. Word. At. A. Time.