Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

1002 replies

ickky · 20/05/2022 12:53

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
tabbycatstripy · 20/05/2022 16:45

We don’t care what you believe, David! That’s just not how you see it? Fine. It’s how she sees it and - as hard as it is for you to believe - she is entitled to her own fucking opinions.

MissPollysFitDolly · 20/05/2022 16:45

IloveHolby · 20/05/2022 16:42

DR - fond of her as I am (said through clenched teeth). God if he's fond of her what's he like with people he doesn't like?

Quite. Poor Allison Flowers

Mollyollydolly · 20/05/2022 16:45

Patronising and hostile. That's putting it mildly.

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 20/05/2022 16:45

bc: you are focused on rights for trans ppl, AB is focused on rights for women
dr: wehn defending rights of women, she says rights should be taken away from other ppl; its not a zero-sum game.

chilling19 · 20/05/2022 16:45

Does he know any women?

Ameanstreakamilewide · 20/05/2022 16:45

BC - Your attitude to AB is patronising and hostile.

UnashamedFeministIntellectual · 20/05/2022 16:45

Well this sounds fascinating, even just listening vicariously through this thread!

It sounds like a case of Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake?

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/05/2022 16:45

He's never even been asked to move to a different room from her. Even doing some heavy lifting there.

Mmmnotsure · 20/05/2022 16:45

Poor Allison, having DR for a roommate.

PrelateChuckles · 20/05/2022 16:46

I'm really glad the judge is female, if it's actually as true as this guy is making it seem that male people literally cannot comprehend any fear of male people in female toilets.

dworky · 20/05/2022 16:46

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/05/2022 16:44

He went to Eton and Oxford.

He was an equality officer.... didn't catch where. Some Union?

I remain staunch in my belief. (I'm a UFI don't forget)

katmarie · 20/05/2022 16:46

My blood is boiling here. He is determined to the point of deliberate obtuseness, to paint the situation as AB says trans are baaaaad. God forbid women should care about their own rights and their own safety.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/05/2022 16:46

He can't do Monday. What a twonk. We'll finish him on Wednesday.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 20/05/2022 16:46

Fucking hell. Women have no right to single sex spaces, even if it's what they say they need for safety, privacy, dignity.

He doesn't care what victims of sexual violence say they want - he doesn't 'agree' with them. Let's chuck them under the bus for the feelz of a tiny minority. Jeez. very very very stark misogyny.

Basically he thinks women (XX ones obviously) shouldn't have any rights at all.

He wants to abolish what the majority of women want for the feelings of a tiny group of XY.

WOW!

NancyDrawed · 20/05/2022 16:47

BC: We can finish Mr Renton on Wednesday

nauticant · 20/05/2022 16:47

DR can't do Monday. Earliest he can do is Wednesday.

Which means he's got to keep quiet about this till then. EJ explained very carefully to DR what this means.

UnashamedFeministIntellectual · 20/05/2022 16:47

I'm offering support twixes to everyone watching as this sounds like a rage inducing witness/man.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/05/2022 16:47

I have meetings on Wednesday which is annoying as this guy is pure sunlight.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/05/2022 16:47

Update: An earlier version of this article relied on information contained on the Ministry of Justice website, which wrongly stated that Rye Hill houses "any prisoners". In fact, G4S, which runs the jail, has confirmed that it now has only sex offenders as inmates. We have corrected the article - it now makes clear that “only five of the eight prisons house only sex offenders” (the earlier version referred to “only a few of these prisons house only sex offenders” and contained an erroneous reference to Rye Hill). Fair Play For Women have also asked us to add that in May 2018, a freedom of information response from the Ministry of Justice, indicated that – based on data from the Annual Offender Equalities Report 2016/17 – there were 125 transgender prisoners in UK jails, 100 in male prisons and 25 in female prisons. The MoJ’s response in full can be seen here and are glad to clarify matters. 18/10/18

LipbalmOrKnickers · 20/05/2022 16:48

Renton's face said it all then.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 20/05/2022 16:48

Christ, what a....

MagnoliaTaint · 20/05/2022 16:48

theemperorhasnoclothes · 20/05/2022 16:46

Fucking hell. Women have no right to single sex spaces, even if it's what they say they need for safety, privacy, dignity.

He doesn't care what victims of sexual violence say they want - he doesn't 'agree' with them. Let's chuck them under the bus for the feelz of a tiny minority. Jeez. very very very stark misogyny.

Basically he thinks women (XX ones obviously) shouldn't have any rights at all.

He wants to abolish what the majority of women want for the feelings of a tiny group of XY.

WOW!

Well, great that this is all being said clearly and in public, from the sounds of it!

theemperorhasnoclothes · 20/05/2022 16:48

I love how he doesn't want rights taken away from trans people (which they don't have in any case) but third spaces would resolve that. If it's gender neutral it's taking rights away from 50% of the population!

He only wants to take rights away when they're women's rights.

Mmmnotsure · 20/05/2022 16:48

EJG seems to making much more of a point to DR than she has to other witnesses about not discussing case under any circumstances.

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/05/2022 16:48

UnashamedFeministIntellectual · 20/05/2022 16:47

I'm offering support twixes to everyone watching as this sounds like a rage inducing witness/man.

It is rage inducing. Seeing a man talk about what victims of sexual assault are allowed to feel and be scared of - it's unbearable

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.