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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

1002 replies

ickky · 20/05/2022 12:53

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Chrysanthemum5 · 20/05/2022 16:38

Oh we will women are just listening to people who scare us instead of clever people like DR - good to know

oviraptor21 · 20/05/2022 16:38

BC looking a little bemused by DR's interpretation of the MoJ response to the FOI request!

Madcats · 20/05/2022 16:38

DR's grandson was Kurt Geiger, according to wiki.

OvaHere · 20/05/2022 16:38

So is he saying the Ministry figures on prison stats are junk?

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 20/05/2022 16:38

Exactly chilling - so underhand and unethical!!!

chilling19 · 20/05/2022 16:38

Supported by evidence - EVIDENCE David. EVIDENCE.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/05/2022 16:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/05/2022 16:37

Does he not realise that "Owl's" partisan piece was debunked, by Andrew Gilligan himself on Twitter.

I'm more than confident that BC is aware that DR is out of date on this matter and the follow-up of the apologies and various clarifications about the analyses.

I'm surprised that DR claims to have reconsulted the data analysis before attending today.

Pyjamagame · 20/05/2022 16:39

How many attacks make it a valid cause for concern, David???

Ameanstreakamilewide · 20/05/2022 16:39

Sounds like it, Ova.

BarryStir · 20/05/2022 16:39

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 20/05/2022 16:37

The previous witness, LoHo, and this one, DR, are the first to seem overtly misogynistic. This one in particular.

Raging misogynist based on this display. I’m so sorry for Allison that she had to share an office with him.

chilling19 · 20/05/2022 16:40

Also - you are a man. What do you care? You are not the one at risk. [ok, need to calm down]

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/05/2022 16:40

Andrew Gilligan replying about the Independent article

mobile.twitter.com/mragilligan/status/933810495215362048?lang=en

TheClitterati · 20/05/2022 16:40

I think this is the Independent article DR is referencing to "discredit" the Justice Dept FOI figures obtained by Fairplay:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html

written by Owl Fisher

BarryStir · 20/05/2022 16:40

Pyjamagame · 20/05/2022 16:39

How many attacks make it a valid cause for concern, David???

I have asked this question to many TRAs and never got an answer.

How many female victims are considered acceptable collateral damage?

Clymene · 20/05/2022 16:41

Dog whistle! Ding ding!

Mollyollydolly · 20/05/2022 16:41

Dogwhistle. Get it on the bingo card.

ickky · 20/05/2022 16:41

😅BC incredulous face.

OP posts:
IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 20/05/2022 16:42

From wikipedia: "David Renton (born 1972) is a British barrister, and has represented clients in a number of high-profile cases, especially concerning trade union rights and the protection of free speech."
Well that's a joke! Free speech, except for women who believe that biological sexi is real and matters.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/05/2022 16:42

"Fond of her as I am"

This is sorely going far far better than expected. He's horrible.

Chrysanthemum5 · 20/05/2022 16:42

Bingo - I was nice to Allison I like her

nauticant · 20/05/2022 16:42

DR has got onto toilets. He'll cling to that like a lifebelt.

OvaHere · 20/05/2022 16:42

TheClitterati · 20/05/2022 16:40

I think this is the Independent article DR is referencing to "discredit" the Justice Dept FOI figures obtained by Fairplay:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/41-per-cent-trans-transgender-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders-false-study-statistic-this-is-why-a8072431.html

written by Owl Fisher

Didn't an earlier witness refer to the Independent as not credible media or was it the New Statesman?

IloveHolby · 20/05/2022 16:42

DR - fond of her as I am (said through clenched teeth). God if he's fond of her what's he like with people he doesn't like?

tabbycatstripy · 20/05/2022 16:42

So WHAT if she doesn’t agree with gender neutral toilets?

BarryStir · 20/05/2022 16:43

Just answer the fucking question!

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