Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

WHAT are you TRANSITIONING TO if GI and sex are the SAME THING!

The stupid, the stupid, my brain hurts with the cognitive dissonance (even just watching).

Fucks sake.

The dog's giving me daggers for it's walk but it'll have to wait. This is too good.

Hang on this woman is a clerk? I assumed she was another head of trans or something.

She's basically said "I can't answer" because she absolutely knows that her real answer is bonkers

Well, what's your bloody definition??

She's a barrister

Are your height and star sign different things? Well, it's complicated...

She sounds absolutely bonkers.

It really is a religion.

I think we can see where some of these problems are now…

She is cagey AF

Anti trans! Transphobic!

BC: is LGB Alliance transphobic (irrational dislike of transpeople)?
LoHo: yes

Why can't an LGB org exclude T, when T orgs/facilities exclude LGB & everyone else? Does LH think those are harmful, too?

BC: Is AB transphobic?
LoHo: Reluctant to say. Some things she says strays into transphobia, but I don't think AB thinks she is transphobic

Reluctant to say yes or no to whether claimant is transphobic. Some of things said and tweeted stray into transphobia but sure claimant doesn't believe she is.

The pretzel logic is INSANE!

She'd do well in the Handmaid's tale. Parsing whether or not some of the things AB has said are transphobic or not. Jeeez.

I need a support biscuit.

She's Aunt Lydia!

LH originally came across as reasonable but later answers are bonkers and she's appearing unhinged

This is gold

LoHo was concerned with linking of LGBA with GCC via AB.

Goodness, I wouldn't employ her if she used GI and sex as different things when explaining what trans is, and then denies they are any different.

It doesn't speak to a firm grasp with reality.

It's all so bloody sinister isn't it .. she's actually chilling to listen to. And she started out so bright and shiny and this is the dark underbelly. A Puritan with a ducking stool.

I cry

I could be wrong but I don't for a minute think LH2 could openly express what are essentially 'GC' views (even as devil's advocate) within either a TELI or TRWG setting and that would be uneventful.

That would stand out - the visceral reaction any 'GC' view would invoke. Look at what happened to AB! I can't for a minute accept she was there as a neutral observer/contributor. The lengths that LGBT groups go to, to ensure only their approved views can participate in round table discussions, are well established. The Census palava. The Scottish government's continued refusal to entertain GC groups until after the GRR draft bill was written. The more recent event where TransgenderTrend were to be platformed alongside the likes of mermaids (with Cass of the Cass Review herself due to speak) for psychiatric students, and they all threw a tantrum & got the event cancelled. The reaction of SW et al to the EHRC single sex guides.

There's not a hope in hell she was there in these groups/settings casually throwing in 'GC' views seriously & not getting the same sort of reaction as AB had.