Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

I'm relying on Tribunal Tweets (and you guys) for this. Godspeed their fingers - I feel it will be important.

The effect of the GRC is for all purposes the sex has changed.

it's not for all purposes is it though?

it's for legal purposes only, and not all legal purposes at that.

lol, then Ben pointing out that the whole ranty string of lies about the Equality Act was completely irrelevant to the question he'd asked.

LouHoo is a true believer.

JR did NOT like that at all

Here we go. This should be good.

I'm getting a bit lost following the TT tweets.

Her underlying thinking is 'batshit'.

It's a piece of cake as a question.

Hang on BC has just said do you accept it's a legitimate view that GI and sex are different, and she's said NO

THEN she says she defines trans people as those who GI is different from their birth sex?

She's just contradicted herself because she cannot define trans without referencing them as different.

gal-dem.com/fuck-the-lgb-alliance/

Is this the article in question?

So LoHo thinks Sex and Gender are the same??????

Definitely sounds like high clergy.

Fascinating.

Go Judge

IF GI and sex AREN"T different then there's NO SUCH FUCKING THING AS TRANS!!!

AAAAARGH. The stupid is too much!

Air quotes!

Quite.

This is brilliant. I need to go on the school run but can't leave at this point.

Are Sex and Gender different things? "too complex to be answered yes or no". Right.

It's complicated. No it really bloody isn't.

she's struggling now, so good to see someone made to sit still and answer. surprise surprise 'it's too complex' so she can't

Yup, high clergy.

Hang on BC has just said do you accept it's a legitimate view that GI and sex are different, and she's said NO

Luke Easley in Maya's case maintained they were the same too.
I.e. your sex is your gender.

I had a lot to say about that at the time! (Would he say that your sex is your gender, but your gender is not your sex?)

It follows that no-one can be trans if no-one's gender can differ from their sex. Hence pretzel logic.

EJ: how some ppl define trans community is wider than current legal definition
BC to LoHo: is believing sex and gender are different things, an illegitimate harmful view, in your opinion?
LoHo: too complex for yes or no answer .... Sometimes it can be

Oh BC, you need to simplify the questions, it really is too much for them to argue against the whole, obviously

A true believer explaining gender identity ideology in court. A fine treat for a Friday afternoon.

I have a report to finish by 5 and the dog hasn't been walked. I can't leave.