Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 7

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

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Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Why would it be unacceptable to criticise lesbians for not wanting to sleep with males and not be coercive?

There seems to be a 'legal' definition of coerciveness vs what the rest of the population believes.

Do keep going with this BC. This is brilliant discussion.

She sounds as slippery as a politician.

This is a shameful part of MS's testimony.

I don't understand why MS keeps going back to saying Morgan Page is coercive to lesbians when clearly the argument is that the workshop which was ran by said person, encourages other "male-bodied individuals" (in Allison's word) to be coercive to lesbians.

MS full of righteous indignation.

Good grief, she walked straight into that!

I’m a woman, Mr Cooper

"I'm a woman. Mr Cooper". Such disdain and fury

'Come on. Everyone is entitled to their sexual boundaries, Mr Cooper. I'm a woman'

'From my own experience "being called a discriminator when you're not is deeply upsetting."'

Coercion is widely used to refer to things which aren't violent, and coercive control in the law is often non violent.

I'm a Woman, MR Cooper!

You don't have to sleep with anyone you don't want to. I'm a woman, Mr Cooper!

OMG she just said 'if you're a racist and someone calls you a racist it's not discriminatory' (or words to that effect) - equating lesbians not wanting to have sex with male-bodied people ARE transphobic and calling them that is just a fact, not discrimination or coercion!!!!!! 😳

MS: "I'm being oppressed!"

MS 'To call someone something they are not is unacceptable'

I know she is referring to calling lesbians transphobic if they won't sleep with a TW, but my mind went straight to TWAW.

My goodness, she is getting cross. By jove, I think she's got it!

'Everyone' just doesn't include young lesbians, though.

On BC questions, "It's now getting oppressive"

Just a reminder as to what Nancy Kelly said last year

""But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions."

This is shocking behaviour from anyone, but from a QC??

Place mark

Argh, wish I could be watching this.
How many of them now is that who are claiming they were/are "still learning" and can't possibly have been expected to understand the issues until now?

MS is an utter disgrace

Yes this is quite clear, she was training other male bodied people to coerce. Not that Morgan Page was doing it directly to an individual. It is not hard to understand.