Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 7

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Barrister doesn't read the Times cause paywall. 🙄

Ads for Majorca. Lol

But, but, but, footnotes, nauticant.

'Trans lesbian woman'

We know and you know what that means, MS.

MS: I don't know what a "trans lesbian" means.

Absolutely.

Anyone else's screen frozen then kicked out?

She didn't/ doesn't know what a trans lesbian woman means.

She is demonstrating that she just doesn't understand any of this.

I think this helps Allison doesn't it?

BoreOfWhabylon Mr X is the subject of a complaint to GCC about alledged antisemitism. They are using that to compare his treatment to the treament of AB. His name is not material to the case, hence 'Mr X'.

That's absolutely bonkers. What research did she actually do on this??

She's not sure what a trans lesbian woman is! It's a bloody MAN. God you can really see how such obfuscation of the language makes this so hard to discuss and get clarity on.

Not only that. But this is just more discussion that will be reported in media and social media.

It will mean many, many more people will be understanding that 'cotton ceiling' is a thing. And that transitioned males have indeed made this a 'thing' by having at least ONE seminar about it.

It is blowing Nancy's statements away about how it is not a 'thing' to worry about. And highlights that Stonewall have NEVER addressed it despite starting out as a LGB organisation with many lesbians being hugely involved in starting it up.

Sunlight every inch of this.

And MS is admitting that she has not done that pedantic research she claimed to have done.

There are already deletions on this thread…. monitors must be panicking…. 👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻

MS is trying the approach of shooting down, one by one, any publication from any source that talks about the "Cotton Ceiling" in terms that contradict the "helpful" interpretation MS adopted for her report.

MS: I don't know what a "trans lesbian" means.
Well, she said she had to educate herself. Apparently she hasn't got around to it.

I think it helps to show that MS was not competent to investigate

She's not sure what a trans lesbian woman is! It's a bloody MAN.

Some might say she was hiding behind the obfuscatory language.

'Some journalist' is doing some heavy lifting here.

Why is she getting petulant now? She was light and sunny yesterday. Feeling defensive?

The interruption from AH sounded like coaching

MS is beginning to quibble with anything put to her.

When I am a witness and my reports/statements are being challenged, I am always open to listening to other points of view and of course there are times when I’m challenged where I think, oh when you put it like that... Or maybe I could have considered..l or even, quite simply, I got it wrong. We are all human.

A defensive, immovable witness even in the face of reasonable challenge is not a good witness.

MS is now saying that pressuring lesbians to sleep with male bodied people in order not to be transphobic is not coercive.

Oh Maya. How could you have become so lost!

A heterosexual man?

She claims to looked into the issue, educated herself etc - on the cotton ceiling, the workshop etc etc - yet claims not to know what the term "trans lesbian" means? Puleeze. Pathetic performance.