Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Why has this turned into an anti-FWR thread? @PandoraSocks started it in good faith to point out the influx of outright lies and deliberate racist information. It’s got sod all to do with FWR or which side of the gender fence anyone sits on.

I don’t think an Immigration board is a good idea. It legitimises the lies posters are attempting to spread elsewhere. People should be allowed to express disquiet about what they observe to be happening in their communities. They should not be allowed to spout racist twaddle. That’s for MN moderation to act on and imo they need to be sharper and less complacent about it.

Fuck me. It’s just culture war noise all the time isn’t it.

If this thread turns into a row about trans issues (don’t care what ‘side’ people are on) then a point is proven.

It’s being used as a Gotcha! more and more too. Apparently, if ChatGPT says something, it must be true.

Suspect you won't be deleting all the racism. Certain types are perfectly fine aren't they?

Please let us not derail this thread with discussions about Israel/Gaza, trans issues etc. They are all important issues, of course, but there are other spaces to discuss those issues and I think the OP has highlighted a genuine problem on MN that is worthy of some focused attention.

It likely won't be long before the thread is rendered unusable by far right posters wanting to accuse us all of being paedophiles or similar, but until then, can we please stay focused on the issue of MN's approach to handling racist content? With examples if people have the energy and will to post them?

The thing is, of course not everybody is going to be posting in good faith. It happens all of the time. It is up to the individual how much time, and energy they are willing to invest, when this happens.

That's insane! Anyone with any sense knows you have to weigh up any AI response!

None of us are able to delete racism of any kind. If only.

That's why I think focusing on misinformation would be the best approach. Where posts are demonstrably misrepresenting the facts, they should be taken down.

The key bit there is “Anyone with any sense” @Zonder

MNHQ won’t want examples of anything on here, except as a handy excuse to delete the whole thread as a TAAT.

No. No type of racism is fine. It all needs deleting.
This is as much about misinformation though.
MN needs to take action against misinformation. Most times other posters will give evidence that it’s a lie so they don’t even need to research beyond verifying the link provided already.
Edit: best me to it @MrsBennetsPoorNerves !

I would say it swings both ways. There were comments on here last night on here that the Christian God is a 'sky fairy' and that English cuisine is chicken nuggets and findus crispy pancakes.

Can you imagine if that had been comments about Allah and curry? The poster would be been banned from the site.

Only this morning is there someone actively jeering saying they hope Britain gets taken over, that we deserve it and that English culture is nothing but a picture of Paddington with the Queen, football hooligans and boozed up domestic abusers. I have never seen other cultures derided with such hatred on here, if they did then the posts would be deleted.

Ah so when people have opinions different to yours, MN should remove them for racism? Excellent idea. Can’t see anything wrong with that at all

OP you are literally one of the biggest engagers in any thread relating to politics or immigration. If you don’t want your thoughts challenged or any debate I’d suggest staying off the internet. You clearly only enjoy your own echo chamber

I agree completely. It's blatantly obvious that vast numbers of posts are not by genuine posters and are an orchestrated by people with an agenda. Most recently the pushing of the idea that asylum seekers are all rapists and dangerous to women. While people should be able to post opinions on topics such as immigration, MN should take responsibility for removing posts that spout misinformation or are trying to create negative stereotypes about any ethnicity, nationality or religion and these posters should be swiftly banned. some of the posts that have been allowed to stand are shockingly racist. I would also like to see a removal of the posts that imply that all trans women are disgusting sexual predators. It is perfectly possible to have a civilised discussion of the issues of trans women using women's spaces without painting them all as monsters.

I presume MN are letting these posts stand as they create a lot of clicks, but they risk loosing their current users as the place is becoming increasingly toxic. I wonder how many of the current advertisers would want to advertise on a predominantly right wing website, as that is where it will be headed.

Engaging in politics threads is wrong now?
This is about racism (hate speech) and misinformation (lies), not someone’s differing opinion. As you well know.

Oh as if you’d be banned for saying Islam is all made up nonsense. People criticise Islam all the time and rightly so. All organised religions have a lot to answer for. It’s total rubbish to suggest that everyone worships and respects Muslims while looking down on all aspects of British culture.

I agree with the op. Too much hate and lies being spread on some of these threads. Healthy discussion should definitely be encouraged, but it's just become nasty.

Agree, I’ve been reporting some of the most obvious stirring ones but nothing done by MN. Grim.

I think we are vastly underestimating the impact and effect of people’s use of AI. That genie is out and shitting all over the boards everywhere and in the analogue world. The time to help people understand what it is and how to use it is behind us already.

mumsnet is a tech company, they should’ve had measure in place at least a year ago but they seem completely on the back foot with it

Can you imagine if that had been comments about Allah and curry? The poster would be been banned from the site

People are saying far, far worse than this and still being allowed to post.

Yes I used to think that too. It's still my personal position. The point I was making, badly, is there are racist posts on here that go and will continue to go unchecked, whilst MNHQ go around deleting only those that they find unsavoury. This is reflected out in the real world.

I see the curry v crispy pancakes thing as part of the problem, by being hard to navigate. I can take the piss out of my own culture (eg food or haircuts, driving habits or any number of silly things) but it’s different if I take the piss out of someone else’s.

I had a discussion with mumsnet before about posters using misinformation to spread hate and they said that they wouldn't do anything about it and to challange the misinformation myself. This makes sense from a business perspective for mumsnet, they get more content on their website, more content means more clicks, means more money for them from adsesnse.

I agree, and AI alongside the orchestration of threads to promote agendas through the planting of misinformation and propaganda is a very big issue for MNHQ now.

Thank you for sharing this. That may help a few of us to make decisions about how we go forward.

It aligns with the response that I received the other day, but I wasn't clear as to whether that was just one crap moderator or an intentional policy/approach. Your experience would suggest the latter.