Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

There is a lot of political misinformation being spread on CITME, despite the fact that that respected national media are reporting these things, with evidence, it seems.

I haven't excluded it and I resent the inference that I have.

I'd be really grateful if we could leave it there rather than this end up as a bunfight.

Please do post links to any particular threads you'd like MN to look at.

The issue of censorship is sensitive and difficult. I get that this is hard for forum owners to navigate. I do report occasionally but I have to hover and ask myself if I would object to these words or tone if I thought the poster was on ‘my side’. Really tricky sometimes.

I think the issue at hand may be the relentlessness of particular themes at times. Similar threads started day after day with the whole thing rehashed. The noise drowns out discussion on almost anything else. On Reddit they sometimes pull together multiple threads n the same topic into one. Maybe MN could add a post saying something like ‘this issue is currently being discussed on this thread (add link), please go there and we’ll close this one’?

It would actually be really helpful if all of us posted links to threads we see as problematic. I can see I’m going to have a busy morning!

I would be very against an immigration sub forum unless you want this site to turn into Stormfront. It’s going to be full of disgusting threads about how terrible immigrants are and how important it is to preserve white values. It will also give ammunition to those who already claim that Mumsnet is fascist.

Yes please. The more evidence the better!

But this thread isn't really about listing out the different types of racism, it's about MNHQ's handling of racist content. The OP posted a couple of examples, rather than a comprehensive overview of all the racism on MN. Perhaps you could add your own examples of threads where MNHQ is failing to tackle antisemitism effectively, as this would help to illustrate the exact issue that the OP is raising.

I am finding that I am just avoiding certain threads altogether now, because of the frequency of racism, that I am coming across MN. It is getting worse, as people are becoming more emboldened generally to air their unsavoury views, thanks to the media, in part being a conduit for certain persons.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384932-the-police-should-be-open-about-these-crimes?page=25&reply=146164295

this is a less obvious one- but it does look like MN are “having a look”

the whole “ban immigrants, that will stop rape by asylum seekers” narrative is just awful.

quite apart from the thread title being just wrong because the police do publish crime stats on line.

I agree with the general concern about the number and content of posts spouting far right, racist, anti-immigrant misinformation. I am attracted to the idea of a specific Immigration board so it doesn't pollute the rest of the forum. But I do think there is a danger in creating that sort of echo chamber in that in can encourage the extremist posters to wind each other up further.
It is true you need to go on the FWR board to see the virulent anti-trans rhetoric and Royal Family board for the raving anti-Meghan posts, so they are easily ignored. But I am not sure that it is healthy to have a space specifically for such obsessives to share their hate and I think it means they are unaware of how much their extremism has drifted from what is normal and reasonable.

To be fair there were plenty of races / people groups OP didn't mention. She was giving three examples.

The op or a pp has also asked others to link to racist threads so you have opportunity to add the ones you see.

I also think that having a specific sex and gender sub hasn’t helped really - there’s hundreds of threads about how dangerous and awful and disgusting all trans people are and it’s full of attempts to paint right wing extremists as “talking sense” just because they also happen to hate trans people. If you did the same for immigration, you’d get loads of threads about rapists, grooming gangs, how you’re not allowed to say Christmas anymore and god knows what.

Yes. We aren’t all here all the time, there are plenty of threads that we will miss. Or might not have clicked on for any number of reasons. The OP gave a few examples to get started, it’s not reasonable to think she knows about all of them. Where people have seen further examples they could post them here.

There’s a lot of the opposite too though - people swearing blind nobody is hungry in Gaza, the IDF aren't shooting people at aid posts etc, when we have eyes and can see the footage ourselves.
All racism should go.

Edit having read the last page - I agree people should link problematic threads here, and I also agree it shouldn’t become racism top trumps. It should all go

The thread about ‘fed up and disheartened with Xenophobia’ is just a couple of posters running absolute riot since page 2 or something - and that’s what’s tricky, there aren’t that many specific posts you could report, but they post over and over, starting fights and belittling people, whole thread is ruined. I’m sure they’d say someone else started it, or that they’re allowed to express themselves and it’s ’good healthy debate’ but it seems so obvious that when you’ve got people replying to almost every post ‘shut up you oat latte drinker’ it makes the whole thread pretty pointless.

I think you are trying to imply something about me and I really don't like it.

I don't go on the CITME board, but I have reported threads that pop up in other parts of MN. They are usually zapped so I have nothing to link to. I have challenged anti-semitism on MN.

Thanks for this OP. I have also been alarmed by the recent surge of racist and xenophobic threads. Im considering leaving mumsnet now as a result.

No there aren't. They say 'nobody can change sex'.

Why don't you ask for a 'self righteous virtue signalling' board where you can all pat yourselves on the back for being 'right on' and never have to see another point of view that doesn't agree with your own.

The mischaracterisation of the Feminism: Sex and Gender Discussions (FWR as was) board on this thread is not helping matters at all, and this thread is doomed to go the same way as all the others we are worried about if mischaracterisation of other people’s discussions keeps occurring.

Thanks for trying, anyway, @PandoraSocks.

Wondered how long it would take

Well we are seeing yours right now, and that is fine.

No they don’t just say that if you read the threads. Theres so much on there about perverts, men in dresses, etc. It’s quite relentless. Ironically I don’t actually believe people can change sex either but the FWR board has made me feel really uncomfortable, especially as it’s often accompanied by trying to justify racism and misogyny (just because the racists and misogynists also dislike trans people).

@SilenceOfTheTimTams the 3 threads linked in the OP dont pretend to be comprehensive, they’re illustrative. And they’re illustrative of what’s happening on the….lets call them ‘mainstream’ boards. I think the ones you refer to are onboards which are aimed at a particular interest. They are still obviously horroble if racism is occurring on them, but most MN users won’t stumble across them. Ones on AIBU on the other hand…
I’m not minimising your concern, just trying to explain what I think the OP was pointing out with the examples. Not sure I’ve done it very well.

And the derailing and being bitchy rather than responding to the OP request to support her position .. nasty and makes one wonder if everyone here is posting in good faith

this is an incredibly difficult thing to get right and is made difficult because I know “get right” translates instinctively into my head as “ make people see it my way “ which isn’t right at all

Lots of the messages on those threads read like AI or bots.