Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

No, of course they won't care.

My only recommendation to anyone who does decide to leave is that you don't just walk away and stop using the site. If you're going to leave, then deregister your account, tell MNHQ why you're going and consider whether it might be appropriate to alert companies which advertise on the site as to the reasons why you're leaving.

You are just trying to push your own agenda and viewpoint on to others as gospel. It’s not you or anyone else on this thread who decides what constitutes as the law and what is illegal/ legal. Not people on here saying “oh well xyz is not illegal” when the government has clearly said it is

That’s fine but you must own that it comes at significant extra risk to women and children. And that that is a price you are happy to pay for unvetted men from high risk countries to arrive in their tens of thousands and ultimately cost the state in the long term as they are very likely to not be net contributors, if contributors at all.

Maybe also ask MNHQ to remove all the posts you made. I think under GDPR you have a right to do that.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/individual-rights/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/

I haven't implied that you're racist. I did say that you might be, but I also considered some alternative possibilities.

Either way, you seem reluctant to share your perspectives on what MNHQ should do to tackle racism.

You probably missed it with all the comments trying to say I’m racist.😀

‘I’d say wanting to censor any questioning that mass immigration, illegal immigration and multiculturalism has been anything but a success would be far left and I consider that an extreme ideology.’

You definitely need to review your stance on sacrificing women and children. I speak for my lived in experience as someone who came to this country legally, and also as victim of people from cultures who have little respect for women. I come originally from one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, I have many Muslim friends, some I consider family. It is not about religion but cultures that clash with modern British culture. It is not racist to criticise the thinking of those cultures.

Will anyone address this comment? Or is it too uncomfortable?

And pray tell where the information is garnered from to form these main stray view's?
This thread is not about immigration it's about racism and the way the site deals with it.
Not all racist issues are linked to immigration.

Ok you’ve baselessly implied ‘I might be’ racist. Weren’t you just saying I was using semantics to argue.

You said the below (you can see it in the quote thread). I’ve asked you to show me where I said that or stop with the disingenuous straw man nonsense if you want to continue. I’ve asked this several times now.
Why don't you believe that racism and inflammatory rhetoric should be censored?

Oh yes I’ve read it. He is saying that illegal migration is run by organised gangs leading HUNDREDS of people to their death in the channel. So he is admitting that there are literally hundreds (yes hundreds) of people being transported here ILLEGALLY via boat, yet there’s posters denying it’s illegal to come here by boat. Seems to me a case of the left (labour party) contradicting the left (people on MN claiming it’s not illegal) 🤣

Good idea to alert advertisers but not sure how I'd do that after closing my twitter account!!

Yes and not all issues relating to immigration are racist. My point, pertaining to the thread, is that reporting posts as racist simply to attempt to censor views you don’t agree with is why they are not being actioned. I got a bit sidetrack with lots of posters implying I was racist, ironically.

Your focus on the semantics and not the tragedy is rather odd.

I disagree that there is a ‘significant extra risk to women and children’ is where our fundamental issue is. I also think your statement about it being ‘tens of thousands of unvetted men from high risk countries’ gives a bit of a dramatic view, when paired with a statement presented as fact about risk to women and children, and I’m not sure what a ‘high risk country’ is really overall. The bit on about their economic situation is a whole other discussion, as it gets into whether people who are not ‘net contributors’ are somehow worth less than others in society, or what that means. That said I would not be surprised if a refugee did need our support and I am happy for my taxes to support others less fortunate, so it’s not really relevant to a discussion with me about it, I don’t see it as a problem.

Is that all you have to say? Yet you ignore a poster who has openly said they are happy to sacrifice the safety of women and children residing in the UK? You’ll have to do better than that!

I don't think it was actually me that asked that question, so perhaps you have your wires crossed.

But I did ask you to share your views on whether racism and inflammatory rhetoric should be censored, and you have so far declined to answer.

As for "baselessly" implying that you might be racist, I don't need to justify this. You might be. If I were to say that you are racist, then I agree that I would need to justify this.

Another quote directly from Keir starmers Facebook page

“If you come here illegally on a small boat, you will face return.

My government is fixing the broken asylum system we inherited”

Yes, I have the same problem.

I found it impossible to close my Xitter account so it still exists. BSky is a much better alternative - and most serious journalists have migrated there.

Ok, great chat.

🤷‍♀️

Apparently according to people on here though, it’s not illegal. But the PM says it is 🤣

Still not answered my question on where information is garnered from to form these mainstream view's?

I think the issue with moderating is that people are allowed to hold and express views that some on here (myself included) would consider to come from an essentially racist worldview, provided the comments are not explicitly racist in themselves.

It's up to MN how they moderate but it's always been pretty much a 'free speech within the bounds of the law' approach and I think that's a good thing.

They can obviously look at posting patterns - a hypothetical poster who continually derails threads for example, or obsessively posts about immigration could be viewed as 'not in the spirit' or not a 'genuine' poster, but OTOH immigration is a big political topic and some will have a particular interest in that as much as any other area.

Derailing is the thing that bugs me most but the way threads seem to work is that you can crowbar basically whatever you want in because conversations may be wide-ranging and posters are entitled to express their views even if they're not strictly relevant to the thread title. And again I think that's fair enough as a moderation policy, but it does make a lot of threads very contentious and meandering. It probably also drives traffic as the urge to push back at annoying posters is a strong one.

My own views on immigration etc (not the topic of the thread obviously) tend to the conservative and I also worry about extremist views, misogynistic cultural norms etc, while not disputing we have plenty of home-grown issues of our own. But I think the sheer number of threads about this at the moment and the dodgy statistics and inflammatory rhetoric is getting quite out of hand and must make anyone not white British question how welcome they really are. It's a shit situation and I think it's being driven by a combination of our weak immigration policies and enforcement and the professional racists and provocateurs getting every last bit of mileage out of that. A very toxic mix.