Son doesn't want me to speak when cooking for him

[Thehabbsareintheho]

My son, age 15, seems to have developed OCD around food and hygiene, also fat bits on meat, use-by dates, the look of food (red meat going slightly brown with 2 days to use-by date), where it is stored, how it is covered, whether anything else in the fridge smells, etc and it is very frustrating. Things are clean and well managed. It isn't a dirty house.

He has ADHD and is a messy cooker himself, and leaves a huge mess, but wants me to cook for him most of the time. He also has restricted eating and won't eat most stuff. He's growing, so eats a huge amount.

Today (he's ill, off school), I was making him some pasta.
Although all pots, pans, utensils and plates are clean (literally shining), he has to wash them again before I use them and he will check everything.

My temper rose just now as I was chatting while cooking the pasta. He asked me to not speak while I'm cooking his food. Pasta in boiling water. I'm fed up of this as it makes me feel like an utter slave/servant.

Any advice? He won't entertain the idea of OCD.

Look up Natasha Daniels (child OCD therapist) on FB, helped me a lot with my DS

If you check back to my previous answer I have said that he needs help. But needing help and being an abuser are not mutually exclusive unfortunately.

Ring the OCD-UK Helpline, they are brilliant either way advice for parents. And make a GP appt. They’ll have some ideas for how to get him there.

Are you being serious ?

What did he say when you told him no, you will talk if you want to while you're stood cooking for him?!

When he asked me not to speak while cooking, because of fear of contamination of the pasta, I got very angry as I felt so violated, as most people would. It felt abusive, regardless of the reasons behind it.

He ended up finishing it himself. This has crept up over the past six months.

He's always been a difficult character and has rages that can last an hour or more. Shouting, being irrational and breaking things. These episodes don't seem to be OCD related, for example can be that he lost something, or fell out with a friend. All of this is a whole other thread.

So I am pandering due to fear. He has had several stints in pupil referral units, and a managed move to a new school which is going okay at the moment, but he doesn't do homework and won't go to school some days.

I'm alone with him. His father and older brother were abusive to me. Life is hard. I'm doing all I can, and am pretty burnt out with it all.

Oh FFS. I have said eff all about red pill stuff or prevent? I am speaking from experience of the slow creep of abusive behaviour that ND teens adopt and, if pandered to by placatory parents, will escalate making their own lives hell and doing nothing to help their DC learn how to moderate their behaviours and adapt.

I have simply pointed out that silencing a person in their own home is abusive. It is universally acknowledged that when they do it in Afghanistan it is abusive and oppressive. It is equally abusive and oppressive for a young man of 15 to try and impose this on his mother in her own home in the UK - where thankfully she can - and should - tell him to fuck off. And seek support and guidance from his clinical team at his next annual review.

He does need to seek help. Real ocd is very debilitating. When I was younger I lived with a girl who had ocd and i managed because it was for a temporary placement in London so we were eating out a lot and I was quite happy to let her get on with being controlling in the kitchen and cleaning to excess. It wouldn’t have been sustainable on a longer-term basis. Your situation is harder because he is expecting you to adhere to his OCD tendencies and do stuff to his standards. If he’s going to be controlling, he needs to be cooking.

I wouldn’t entertain this nonsense, he needs to see a Dr for his anxiety.

There could be a physiological reason for increasing anxiety, some neurological conditions etc, he needs a medical review and bloods checked.

The DS of a family friend started showing behaviour like this at a similar age to your son. He began making more and more demands regarding his mum’s behaviour - where things were to be kept in the fridge, when things were to be cleaned, which lights could be turned on etc. His mum, presumably for a quiet life and because she didn’t know what else to do, acquiesced to him, and gradually the demands got more and more extreme. Time passed, and the son is now 45 years old and still lives with mum. Mum has absolutely no life, never leaves the house (has all food delivered) is not allowed visitors, and is not even allowed to watch what she wants on the telly. Her life has been destroyed by her DS’s mental illness, as has his.

Do not allow this to happen to you.

This post reveals abuse. Asking someone not to speak while you cook as you're worried about contamination is a symptom of a mental health issue.

With regards to medical help, he refuses to take ADHD medication and doesn't seem CAHMS anymore.

He refuses all interventions and offers of counseling- made two appointments for him recently but he wouldn't go.

He’s rude and entitled. Either he accepts your way of doing things or he does it himself. And he clears up properly afterwards - mess is mess, whether it occurs before, during or after cooking, so if he leaves a messy kitchen when he’s finished he’s taking the piss with his demands. Nip it in the bud or you’ll be a slave to it. Suggest he sees GP for any MH problems and if he refuses it’s not your problem. Sorry but pandering isn’t an option here.

I don't know much about OCD,but will get on with reading more about it.
I had some success with using Chat GPT to help me figure out a friend's behavior, so will try it with him as well.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm so worried about what the future holds for him and how he will manage.

Unfortunately the two aren’t mutually exclusive and telling his mother not to speak while she cooks his food is abusive.

I would urge you to reach out to your GP to obtain support for yourself and a social care assessment for your DS (for over 18s it is an adult social care assessment but I am not sure what they call it for under 18s).

This should result in a multidisciplinary team becoming involved, included ND specialists, MH clinicians and social workers who can look at the OCD, food issues, therapy, and assign a youth mentor who can work with him on things like cooking and help come up with strategies for him to manage and mitigate his OCD related behaviours.

It will also mean that your GP will be in your corner and can refer you for counselling - both to address your trauma over other abusive relationships, the way this means your responses to your DS are fear-based, but also look at the impact of parenting an ND child. Medication may also help along side this. They should also be able to refer you to a local carer’s support team (or charity) where you can have a cuppa and meet other carers like yourself.

Counselling as really helped me understand that my conflict avoidant and fear based responses were contributing to a negative cycle in my parenting, that my failure to set boundaries and prioritise myself actually made my DC feel less secure than if I had asserted them. Support from the local carers association, ADHDUK and the NAS (not sure if your DC is also autistic) has been really helpful - especially parent peer counselling.

You do not need to cope alone. There are people who can help you navigate this - and in doing so ensure your DS has even better support. He needs you to do this for yourself, as much as you do.

It is quite possible this is an episode that will eventually pass.

Thank you. He doesn't try to control me in other ways so much and I have a social life that I'm definitely not giving up as I need it for my sanity.

I will do more pushback and will be on the lookout for unreasonable demands.

I wouldn't be cooking for him then, he can do it himself. That's just ridiculous

This is exactly where my friend is now. She's basically a prisoner in her own home. If her son goes out (he does drive and does voluntary work because he can't do a paid job) and she goes out shopping or to visit someone, she has to keep quiet about where she's been otherwise he will give her the third degree. The shouting and raging has worn her down - and because he's being 'cared for' at home, no help is available.

So it sounds like this might be a common thing. Why is there not more help for women stuck like this?

It sounds very very very very much like OCD. I know it's horrible to be treated like that, but to him it's a real anxiety/fear, if it's that. It's sometimes not even really about cleanliness. Washing in this case may serve as desperate coping mechanism (compulsions) to escape or neutralize any obsessive thoughts.

I'm happy that I overcame OCD, although a slightly different version of it. And I can tell you, the no 1 rule with OCD if no therapy is on the cards yet (as you mentioned he won't go): STOP making accommodations.

• Sit down during a calm moment and say: "I love you too much to keep helping whatever is causing your anxiety. Starting tomorrow, I won't be able to (stop talking while cooking/cleaning all pots before cooking/etc. etc.) anymore. I am here when you're ready to get help/talk to someone."
• Logic won't help, like "the pots are clean, stop washing it!" - because it's emotional fear, not logic.
• Instead of "You're insulting me, me and the house are clean", try: "I can see how terrified and exhausted you are. It must be so draining to feel like you have to do that over and over."

Frame therapy not as a long-term thing, but maybe as a test - just do one consultation initially, no commitment.

I hope he and you get the help he needs!

No it isnt abusive if it is because he has an irrational delusion that she will contaminate his food. It's indicative of his mental health issue.

The shouting etc is abuse.

@Thehabbsareintheho make sure you do not confuse the two. He is a child after all.

This definitely needs nipping in the bud now, before it gets massive.

If he tries the "don't speak" thing again, I'd give a very firm, "Excuse me?! I'll talk as much as I like in the house I pay for!"
If he complains about non-existent issues with the food, I'd give a "Well, you're welcome to eat it, or not. But there's no alternative."

And OP doesn’t have to set herself on fire to keep her son warm. I’ve worked in disability support for over twenty years and have seen these situations escalate until the families of those with the MH condition are broken and exhausted. He’s 15. Old enough to know what he’s doing and that he needs help, and if he’s not prepared to accept it then OP needs to take a step back to avoid being his enabler, and most of all for her own mental health.

There is help for women like this, but the steps to put it in place are quite daunting. She can (as hinted above), speak to her GP, tell them that she cannot continue like this and demand an adult social assessment with a view to transitioning him into independent separate living accommodation. This is in her DS’s interests because once she is no longer around, he will not have been prepared and ‘trained’ to cope without her. She is under no legal obligation to keep him in her home and noone can’t force her to, so it is a kindness that she has done so to date. It is nonetheless NOT unkind for her to seek support to move him out and scaffold him into independence.

The issue is that she will FEEL that she is being unkind, that her desire to be free of him is unreasonable. This is where she needs a friend to explain that if she were removed from his life tomorrow, how would he cope? Who would step in to sort out money, who would ensure he is managing day to day? She is enabling him, from a place of love, when she needs to put the support network in place that fills the void she would leave - and in doing so would be ensuring his future safer and more secure.