terrifying, dangerous, abusive "advice" on r/transgenderuk

[mardirousse]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1vo4oqz/hypothetical_situation/.

Dad wants to prevent his effeminate 15 year old boy from developing an adam's apple or deep voice, so "hypothetically" asks if he could back and forth to France for puberty blockers.

gets loads of "support", told he's a wonderful father, advised to put the lad on diy estrogen instead as it's more appropriate "at that age" (15!).

Surely platforms can't allow this, legally! it's so dangerous. I'm really upset. His poor little lad.

They’ve moved on to suggesting that she / he escapes as a refugee. So that’s a lot more reasonable.

You guys are back to supporting Hilary Cass' views are you?

Unfortunately, that is undermined by the studies that another 'gender critical' poster posted.

I don't know what you mean by 'classed as'.

If you mean do I think some people are trans and always have been including before they were 10? Yes, I do. In the same way that I know that I was always gay, long before I was capable of sexual feelings.

If you mean do I think that children under ten should be prescribed puberty blockers - in general no, I think that is likely to be too young given the indications in research that the ages 10 to 13 is when persistence or desistance of a trans identity is likely to crystalise.

Jeez - it's almost like there is a difference between a consequence - death - which is imposed on an individual by the state; and a decision which is taken by a gillick competent child, their parents and their doctors.

The research tells us that the best predictors of whether or not a trans identity will persist are (a) age - have they reached 10-13; (b) severity of GD; and (c) length of persistence of GD.

It is a total no brainer that in a scenario when less than 10% of gender dysphoric children who were, on average, older than 13 and experiencing the most severe and persistent GD, that cohort was highly likely to have persistent trans identities into adulthood.

That proposition is far more backed up by research than any claim that PBs somehow cause the inevitability you claim exists.

It's not dancing on the head of pin to point out that a study showing higher mental health difficulties in trans people who have had surgery compared to trans people who have not does not actually tell us that the surgery was bad for mental health or worse than doing nothing.

That is just a fact about the limitations of what that research can tell us.

Try rereading.

Adults who have been on puberty blockers...

Yes! Yes, there is a difference! Hence the word used was "parallel" not the words "exactly the same as"!

And apparently, one difference is that the bar that must be cleared by the state to kill someone is far far higher than the bar that must be cleared by the medical profession to decide someone is appropriate to mutilate and sterilise (1). Good to know!

Indeed, since the bar for the latter appears to be "because the child really really super true pinky promise knows their mind isn't what a boy/girl's mind is supposed to be like and their parents think so too!!", it is so low it's barely a line painted on the basement floor.

And if you can't see the huge red flags not only with the act of mutilation and sterilisation itself, but with a child growing up with the idea that some minds are right for each sex and some are wrong, I don't know how to help you other than to hope one day you grow out of such sexist shite.

(1) Because the argument you made was, of course, that the reason PBs inevitabilty go on to cross sex hormones and most likely surgery isn;t because they cause these things, oh no no no, it's because the medical profession is just so darn good at picking the people who will need the full monty right at that initioal PB stage.

`Thank you for replying.
By 'classed as' I meant something like 'considered by professionals involved in their care as..'.

Where we will have to agree to disagree is that a child can be 'trans'.

Nobody, adult or child, can transition from one sex to another.
It's dishonest and unfair to suggest to children who have difficulty relating to their biological sex that they can change from the sex they are uncomfortable with to the one they prefer.

Referring to a child as trans is imposing a recent, adult identity on a childhood experience the existence of which long precedes the term 'transgender'.

We just don't agree on the basics, I'm afraid.

I still didn’t say PBs themselves caused anything. Rather it is the decision to prescribe them that places the child on the medical pathway.

The fact remains that you cannot know which of the children given PBs would have found their dysphoria resolved had they gone through puberty. You’re happy to take that gamble with children’s lives. Others aren’t.

It indicates that having surgery does not help with mental health problems ie they persist despite the surgery. That’s not the promise of GAC.

There is no research that tells us this at all. It’s based on the lie of “persistent, insistent and consistent” which ignores all the people who have been these three things and desisted/detransitioned.

And what do you mean “have they reached 10-13”? Do you mean they have reached 10-13 still claiming a cross sex identity? Or reached 10-13 while then claiming a cross sex identity?

Show us the research that proves this, including long term follow up that confirms it is correct.

There is no reliable predictor of future identity. Even WPATH knows it.

It's very inconvenient for transactivists.

Can trans people really not see the lunacy of saying puberty blockers are needed for children whose body dysmorphia is persistent when it is puberty itself that will remove that persistent dysphoria from most children with it?

Unless of course they've been backed into a corner they can't escape from by parents who've invested their body and soul into their child's change of identity.

My narcissistic mother would have had me to the Tavistock quicker than a rat up a drainpipe if it had existed in the days when I was a pink ribbon refusenik. She would have revelled in the attention (and so would I have done as a child).

They can absolutely see it. Trans ideology requires trans children in order to justify adult males cross-dressing.

If you read the transwidows threads, which run to thousands, the stories are all very similar. Adult men recon their entire history to pretend they always felt like a girl, since a small child. It takes the sex out of it.

Convincing children online that if they don't conform to gender stereotypes they must be trans, teaching it in school etc, has been very successful.

As Helen Joyce points out, the parents of these children who have gone along with it, heavily investing in it, will be the absolute last people to reverse ferret. Understandably.

Also ignores the huge rise in referrals, particularly of girls.

Where were all these patients 40-50 years ago. Where are these older trans identifying women now?