terrifying, dangerous, abusive "advice" on r/transgenderuk

[mardirousse]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1vo4oqz/hypothetical_situation/.

Dad wants to prevent his effeminate 15 year old boy from developing an adam's apple or deep voice, so "hypothetically" asks if he could back and forth to France for puberty blockers.

gets loads of "support", told he's a wonderful father, advised to put the lad on diy estrogen instead as it's more appropriate "at that age" (15!).

Surely platforms can't allow this, legally! it's so dangerous. I'm really upset. His poor little lad.

Sorry, are you just assuming that if someone is at Pride with a visible disability that (a) they were on puberty blockers and (b) that their disability was caused by puberty blockers?

Like, genuinely, is that the sum total of your evidence here?

I'd love someone to give the opposite evidence.

I was 42 when my body stopped producing estrogen and I could not walk up the stairs by the age of 49, even though my daily job was 'head gardener' and I did probably 40,000 steps, weighed down with equipment, doing digging, shovelling, moving trays of plants etc etc all day every day. If I hadn't finally got HRT I doubt Id be walking now.

To suggest that stopping girls from getting the correct bone strengthening hormones in their teens will not have a detrimental effect on their bones in their 20s is utterly ludicrous.

Sometimes, you have to just realise what it is you are looking at. If you look at that and think 'how nice disabled people are getting out of the house' then that's your decision to make.

Well the first answer he got was from some idiot who compared vaginismus with an open wound trying to close up.
I suspect it only got worse from there.

Well the first answer he got was from some idiot who compared vaginismus with an open wound trying to close up...

Amazingly vaginismus was suggested by a female.

Thanks.

So taking the studies referred to in your link.

The conclusion in Steensma (2011) is that the ages 10-13 are the critical years in determining whether gender dysphoria is likely to persist or not, and in Wallien the conclusion was that extremity of gender dysphoria in childhood is a good predictor of persistence or desistance.

Both Steensma and Wallien suggest very strong links between the extremity of gender dysphoria in childhood and persistence.

The only other study is Singh, which measures outcomes from a much older period (mean initial diagnosis year was 1989).

On balance, I think these studies support the points I have been making more than the points you have been making - that by the time puberty blockers come to be considered, the likelihood of persistance is already largely determined, and there are factors that can point one way or another in that respect. Which means that we can reasonably conclude that if a child who had extreme gender dysphoria through childhood, which was persistent, that gender dysphoria was likely to persist into adulthood.

Yes was enough of an answer.

You saw disabled people at Pride and decided you knew their medical history. I suppose it makes a change from 'they're all making it up to look cool'.

@ConveyancingHelll I see you reported my post rather than answer the questions I put to you in it?
Getting too close to the truth perhaps?

I'd still like to know what your stake in advocating for the idea of a "Trans Child" is though. Why are you so determined to medicate and butcher children? Why do you care?
I know you don't believe in it. No one does.

I didn't report any posts, but no, I'm not going to respond to personally abusive posts directed at me, so you can jog on.

So that's a no on answering me then?
I expected nothing else tbh.
It's ok. I already know the answer

The thought of anyone procuring puberty blockers or cross sex hormones for a child without medical supervision is so chilling. Even when used for precocious puberty the side effects are awful - osteoporosis, depression and suicidality, joint problems.

My cousin was on them for just over a year in the 90s and has recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis in her early 30s. I wouldn't wish the pain she's in on anyone.

Yes, agreed that obtaining them with proper medical supervision would be far preferable.

Please point out my "wild TRA nonsense" whenever you manage to find any.

I'm still waiting for someone to point to even one video that supports the wild nonsense that was posted earlier today that nobody but me questioned.

What’s the point in them at all though. It’s just helping someone PRETEND to be the opposite sex more realistically. You still cannot change sex. Why bother trying?

We disagree.

If that data has been collected and analysed (there is no evidence that it has) and a correlation has been shown to exist between a significant number of cases of mobility difficulties resulting in wheelchair, crutch and frame use at a very young age due to osteoporosis caused by puberty blockers and if that data was released to Cass, then I do not believe that the puberty blocker trial could possibly get through an ethics committee for approval.

MoltenLasagne didn't say their cousin wasn't being supervised.

Because there is a lot of evidence that transitioning - whether social, medical or surgical - can benefit some people with gender dysphoria, and that process is much harder if they have gone through puberty in their natal sex, aside from the significant distress that a trans girl might feel at going through puberty to develop masculine features.

But wouldn't counselling to accept their actual sex be a safer option?

also know that the decision to proceed to cross sex hormones is a decision taken by competent adults, rather than some inevitable consequence of puberty blockers

What competent adults? You can't mean the individual that has had their puberty (i.e. the developmental process where a child becomes an adult) blocked so perhaps you mean the ones who facilitated it?

"Because there is a lot of evidence that transitioning - whether social, medical or surgical - can benefit some people with gender dysphoria" (my emphasis)

And there we have an obvious issue @ConveyancingHelll. You, and others, are advocating placing children onto a lifelong pathway of medical treatment that may benefit them. How can you identify who will benefit from medical transition? Particularly as most trans activists have given up the pretence that puberty blockers are any kind of pause button to see how it goes, and are rather the first step on an inevitable journey toward more and more medical intervention.

I did used to provide links to the evidence...for the first decade of this 'argument'. Which the person in discussion would then completely ignore so when I last changed computers I stopped saving photos and links. But again you can go just watch a Trans PRIDE march yourself.

Has anyone on the pro-cosmetic gender "alignment" side clarified yet whether trans children are:

a) children of one sex with a deep and persistent belief they should have been the opposite sex, so deep and persistent that the only humane treatment is to force their developing body into the best rough facsimile of the appearance of the opposite sex we can

Or

b) children who actually are, in a genuine deep mental way, the opposite sex because sex for all of us is as much physical as mental, and for those with this DSD causing mismatch of the mind and body there is no cure for the objective fact that they really do have a mismatched sex in the mind and the body, but the more we can realign the faulty body expression of opposite sex towards the true sex of the mind, the happier the person?

This is incredibly naive.

The Pathways researchers are fully aware that the trial they propose will:

Sterilise and make infertile its participants.
Cause osteoporosis/penia of uncertain severity.
Cause a failure of sexual development and subsequent sexual function.
Have an unknown effect on the developing brain of its participants.

The idea that severe osteoporosis outcomes would be the straw that breaks the ethical camel’s back on this trial proceeding is tragically laughable.

Then we will have to disagree about the impact that significant numbers of young people in wheelchairs due to puberty blocking would have.

This article hit my inbox this morning, thought it was relevant to the discussion on this thread. End notes link to the studies and papers referenced

https://open.substack.com/pub/pitt/p/beyond-gender-affirming-rhetoric?r=1one23&utm_medium=ios