NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

A really annoying aspect of Upton’s phone notes is his inability to keep the same tense. You’d have something to say about that if you were analysing it as a bit of creative writing.

'sad times' shuuuuudup!! Women don't exist to appease you!

To be fair, the only reason for recording anything at all is to be able to raise it in a complaint.

What seems off to me is that the very first incident is recorded, allegedly contemporaneously. Any person, might, by the second or third "issue" with an individual make a note, but then you'd have to add a note, saying something like "although I'm recording this in October, I want to make a note about something I remembered back in August, the first time I met this individual"

If your contemporaneous note goes back to the first interaction, that's suspicious.

Back on

Back in the room sound very clear

Sandie didn’t need to ask him about his chromosomes, she already knew he was a man. Unlike all the other medical staff, she can tell the difference.

also the fact it happened twice before Sandie felt she could say sommat. Good on ar Sandie for plucking up the courage over those three times to say something. Can't have been easy

TT's 1st of the morning tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1948634213789347997.html

Very good point. It is exceedingly unlikely she would have felt any need to ask him that.

I’m half surprised there isn’t a note of ‘Goodie Peggie didn’t say she liked my lipstick, sad times’.

Those have non of the markers of contemporaneous notes. Misspellings, abbreviations, slight inconsistencies.
They read like a very considered and edited essay.

BTW the absolute basics of providing this kind of evidence would be that the employer would have prepared a clean machine with no extraneous software, but possibly including logging & screen recording software, the employee would be invited to attend the physical location of that machine and the tech guy would control the machine once the employee had logged in to the relevant website. There would be a script of actions agreed between employer & employee ahead of time. And the deliverables would be native files with metadata, screen recordings, sworn statements, the pre-agreed script, and a summary of what actually happened.

I mean that's what you'd do if you wanted your evidence to be accepted because you knew everything was legit.

If you didn't care, you'd let the employee use their own machine with whatever software they like installed on it, you wouldn't be in the room, you'd let the employee write the results up and obtain the files, and you'd deliver a PDF made from a Word document made from images that you never controlled.

Guess which option Fife chose.

Because that’s what they think women do in changing rooms

Sad times.... somebody walked out of the changing room.

FFS!

The 'sad times' comment comes over as nauseatingly self-righteous, doesn't it?

DU doesn't know that one of the first rules girls learn is NOT to make eye contact with scary men who are acting inappropriately. No-one teaches us with words, we learn from horrible experience.

From Herald

Sad times. Should be the name of Uptons band or biography

Sounds like he gave as good as he got, then worked himself up to tears when he decided to report her. Which he was clearly working up to from the nasty little notes (if they were indeed created at the time).

Short break

From TT

resuming
JR - sc sh 19 google orders notes in order of creation - so weird incident some time in august
PD - it was the earliest, shown first
JR - how do we know
PD - there was one earlier
JR - which might it be of the sc sh? 1649, at sc sh 19 16:59 edited 30th Aug, said

CE - where
JR - 1646 - was sthere something in sc sh before 30th august?
PD - can't say there was or wasn't, showing it carried created date of oct, but order presented if unmanipulated showed
JR - which at top?
PD - can't remember
JR - 1643 - ..
PD - can't recall if that was top

From TT

JR - possible?
PD - don't think it's telling us it was sitting at the top in that sc sh.
JR - nothing more.
J -
PD you may leave, short break for new witness.
BREAK *

TT - will continue on this thread when we resume*

The more DU comes out with, the more obvious it becomes that he's simply an insufferable little prig who has undoubtedly been indulged his whole life.

I wonder how many steps the Judge does each day walking to and from his Chambers to the court room.

Auto- Biography, surely?

Why oh why do i search X during the breaks.. Tamzin Outhwaite just revealed her 17 year old son is trans.. its never ending!! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️