NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I do make notes of significant incidents starting with an account in patient notes. Then as much anonymised detail as possible on my home computer for discussion with my indemnity provider if it comes to that ie organisation decides to throw me under the bus. I certainly do not keep a daily diary of all the interactions in my day. Imagine in a big brother style voiceover “Dora in the canteen gives Ray more cucumber in his sandwich than she puts in mine” sad times!

PMSL that a senior A&E nurse would have time to compliment a colleague on their appearance (or even have the bandwidth to notice it with everything else going on).

I also wonder, given SP is not that much younger than me, if she first started training in the final days of the formidable ward matrons? My esteemed aunt was one of those and I can't imagine that any such idle chit chat would have been tolerated when on duty.

From notes: "A weird incident. 26/08/23
Nurse Sandie Peggy walked into changing room while I was changing. Looked taken aback. I said, hey. She said, hi. "

From Dr U's witness testimony, he said that when changes he faces the wall, so as not to draw attention to himself. If that is true it doesn't fit well with the account he noticed who entered the room, let alone spoke to them, at that stage?

Get publicity for her! Media types need to feed the media also there will be lots of mummy ‘daughter’ pics in years to come

She’s looking smashing today!!!

I once had a wasp fly up the back of my shirt! I was pushing DC in a pushchair and stopped to flap and dance about trying to and get it out without actually undressing in the street. I must have looked bonkers. Bastard stung me and didn't have the decency to die.

Having gone through a legal case ( patient sued me for negligence) the legal advise is always to be accurate with notes and omit any “feelings” or subjectivity. State the facts and not try to guess what the other party is thinking or feeling. In my case the patient changed their story so many times to try and fit the emerging evidence that their legal team pulled out.

I am wondering whether this forensic analysis of DUs evidence is actually being used to distance NHSFife from DU. Maybe since the first part of the hearing it has become more evident that DUs story is springing huge leaks particularly the IT trails. Are they trying to throw DU from the ship? Maybe restructure their own actions based on misinformation/lies and try and realign their defence towards apology and payout in light of the SC ruling and current advice re single sex facilities.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the HR witnesses have been encouraged to act dim over gender policy in order to claim confusion and ignorance. I can’t believe that they did not have a policy re staff changing and gender. Having just endured a CQC inspection, all our policies are up to date and robust, including addressing safe spaces for changing. We have comprehensive apps that are used to inform staff and any updates to policy are published and staff have to read ad and sign them electronically. They are easy to access through the app for reference. I’m surprised that NHSFife do not use similar so staff can check policy in real time.

As someone young and tech literate this was my immediate thought, I’m surprised the IT guy was like it’s a mysterious error that can’t be replicated.

If the affirmation is not complete and total, it is worthless. It's like an inflatable pool toy: A single puncture in the narrative of "I'm a woman" and the whole thing loses its shape and sinks.

Since yesterday collage pic of Sandie I am in awe of the number of handbags she has. Where does she keep them all ?

Surely no need for this kind of record keeping! Perish the thought that an indemnity provider would question the professionalism, honesty, or indeed kindness of a doctor!

But that’s exactly it, he despises the likes of KS because she simpers over him, she’s easy to convince, he manipulates her for his own ends, but what he really wants is the difficult ones like SP to acknowledge and affirm his identity, that’s the real prize for these types of men, to break the strong women, that’s their goal.

Upton's notes: I had occasion very recently to observe something disturbing and I sat down immediately afterwards and composed a note of what I'd witnessed.

Let's just say it reads nothing like DU's notes - no flowery embellishments at all and, as is very common, even a few minutes after the event I wasn't 100% of what had actually occurred, when and how.

I think we have a new internet meme: "x happened ... sad times!". It probably deserves its own mumsnet thread.

@MyAmpleSheep I would and have behaved in a similar way. We had a trans identified male volunteer at my work, creepy little fucker who would bang on about periods all the time. I walked out of the toilets when he was in there, i didn’t want to risk him asking me for a tampon. Bloody great micro aggression right there!

At least we know now why Fife agreed to the "forensic" analysis of Upton''s phone. They wanted it done inhouse by someone with little expertise so the truth would not come out.

It's written very much like he expects to be the centre of everyone else's attention, and how even the most trivial actions of others are aaaaaaalll about him.

"She didn't smile at me"

Sunshine, she doesn't have to. Maybe she doesn't like you. Maybe she's exhausted, or struggling with a difficult patient, or has something going on outside of work, or just stubbed her toe on a trolley someone left in the wrong bloody place again. As long as she's doing her job and being professional, you need to leave the personal stuff OUT.

She doesn’t seem to have been busy lately does she? A bit like Shobna Gulati ‘coming out’ as ‘non binary’ at 58 ffs 🤦‍♀️ they’re just attention seeking.

I wonder if Peggie is the first person who has actually challenged and not affirmed him. His parents, his wife, his boss have all told him what a convincing lady he is.
I’ve seen clips of men who don’t even slightly pass convinced they do because no one challenges them (probably because they are scared). So he’s basically freaked out because he knows he isn’t a woman and doesn’t pass as one but has been happily in his bubble.

she said others were uncomfortable, I take it no one bothered to identify these women and they are hiding because they think they will also be suspended.

It’s all very Adrian Mole.

Went swimming with school. Pandora walked past as we were queuing for the changing room. She didn’t smile. Weird, sad times.

Thus short break is turning into rather a long one. Has JR done a runner?

It's such a lovely thing to have the relatively young C Elves doing the cross-examination. Upton probably thought he was getting one over the older generation with this.

In reality, many of us oldies were the ones that unpacked and set up the first computers as they were rolled out in workplaces, and we've owned every iteration of mobile phone, and we were the first ones to claim IT disasters as reasons/excuses for missing deadlines set by our presumed-to-be-tech-illiterate elders.

@mylittlekomododragon I hope you are keeping your own contemporaneous notes.

Just catching up, can I ask who C E is, Naomies junior?

TT still saying 5-10 mns break, 36mins later.
What's up I wonder? Tech guy distressed and sobbing and pleading 'don't make me go out there! the meanies will make me look like a gullible easily-led lightweight again, and I'm not, I'm not!'?