NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I still find it kind of creepy that he made notes about Sandie’s refusal to take part in his delusions it would make my skin crawl if it was me 🙈

Have read DrU's notes now - a lot of it 'she didn't smile back at me' kind of stuff, really silly.
His version of 'the incident in the CR' is interesting as it suggests a long exchange, not just SP snapping at him. She explained her reasons and he says he acknowledged that his presence was making her - and possibly other - uncomfortable and intimidated. But tough, I've every right to be here.

It sounds unpleasant for DrU to hear, but not aggressive.

Camera has been turning on and off in court. I think one of the court assistants was going round checking equipment, and turning the court on and off again, so to speak.

We have the usual empty court white noise now, which sounds pronmising.

Oooh good thinking 🧐

I know everyone is different but those DU phone notes sound like they were all composed in one go and not contemporaneous at all.

Also who would record that level of detail if not looking forward to using it against someone?

He 'explained through tears'

I've been in a situation where I had to document interactions. I wouldn't have written that. Manipulative egomaniac.

I don’t understand how any sensible person can’t see this.
I’ve been a man for 20+ years, I’ve decided I’m a woman with my fully formed male body, can’t understand why you have an issue with that. Look, I shaved!

I could stop myself from doing a name change promise I will go back to NotfinanciallyResponsible next thread which will probably be later today given the mess NHS Fife IT have made 😂

therefore I am going to self ID as the missing risk assessment- how easy is that?

I realised with a start last night that I worked with BU’s mum a long time ago. Obviously I’m not going to elaborate on that but she was nice and seemed v. good at her job.

The realisation made the whole thing seem a bit more “real”- It’s easy to assume that everyone around you privately agrees with you, but it really is knitted throughout the NHS atm.

On a related note, any GC NHS staff who have been drawn to this thread might find it helpful to google “SEEN in Healthcare” - it certainly makes me feel better knowing that there are people like me out there, even if we can’t see each other yet.

Same! I'm hoping a tech minded person will be able to summarise it all in words of one syllable once both of the IT witnesses have finished.

He's not a forensic IT guy. He's internal security IT guy and he wasn't allowed access to the phone. He was instructed to help DU download screenshots of his notes by remote access, ie over TEAMS, and to see him enter the meta data in an online shared document, I believe.

The expert witness re forensics is JB who also didn't have access to the phone but who has reviewed the submission and, from this questioning, appears to have cast some doubt on the veracity of the submission.

yeah, I don't think anything Sandie is reported to have done sounds particularly bad. She said she felt intimidated. And mentioned prison situation but didn't mention Isla Bryson by name.

Agree that you would only record this level of detail if you are planning on using it against someone.

I dont know, i think they were every time he felt she hadn’t given him the attention he felt he deserved and once it happened more than once he would have been hyper aware of it so its plausible he wrote them all at once or as they happened but either way he set her up for sure!

@BezMillsFifer you are on fire today!!
Thornton star under 17s!! I’m howling😂
I hope you make your living at this as you are so talented!

From DUs notes - no mention of the leaving cubicle accusation at all that I can see (Snickers bar child at Halloween), just the one with the patient leaving before assessment - where he reports that SP said something to him and Rehana.

I think this may be the crux of the whole matter right here:
she did not acknowledge Me (capitalization as original)

Especially someone old enough to be his mother having to read the "weird sad times" nonsense.

I don't much like changing in front of anybody, and can imagine in a women's changing room that potentially anyone might feel sensitive about their body, in comparison to the others in the room, or for a multitude of other reasons.

Basically NHS Fife have fucked up again which is no surprise

They don't read as contemporaneous notes - more like something he produced later.

However the interesting part of this shows how "unkind" he was to SP - she tells him she feels intimidated by a man in the cr and that she has had bad experiences and he just bats her away - no empathy.

Also DU doesn't sound upset at all in the note - stands his ground/refuses to leave/lectures SP about his "Rights" - only "upset" when goes looking for ED

It is fairly normal for certain types of professionals to keep comprehensive diaries. Politicians are always going on about their diaries full of inanity and appointments and then more detail for unusual incidents. I think if you have a job that's flying by the seat of your pants it's a good practice to have. Any doctors here can say if this is something you are taught to do?

Her account also disagrees with his in many instances. She denies asking for chromosones -- could be an embellishment by him or a later manipulation of his notes.

DrU's notes remind me of the film Claire's Knee [Eric Rohmer 1970] - here's part of the the wiki synopsis
Jérôme tells Claire that he saw her boyfriend, Gilles, together with another girl, Muriel. When Claire starts to cry Jérôme consoles her by placing his hand upon Claire's knee. Jérôme later delightedly tells Aurora that it had taken him great courage to touch Claire's knee and that doing so has exorcised his desire of her from him. Gilles returns and tries to give Claire excuses as to why he was with Muriel. We're all chatting. Sandie comes in, chats a bit to Fiona. I think this is weird, as Sandie hates being in the changing room with me, but whatever Shwayts leaves. I go to the bathroom. Fiona leaves. Leave toilet, and she's still hovering. Rihanna asked Sandy of any concerns. Were both in front of me. Sandy didn't look at or otherwise engage with me. Responded. She had no concerns. I said, thanks. I needed to know for the letter, she did not acknowledge Me, either through words or eye contact,

Spot the transition - so to speak😁

Poor me, poor me. Nasty Sandie.

18/12/23
working nights. One week, eye contact. One acknowledge my presence, not a direct conversation. Yet I can feel this dismissal hostility. Needed to ask Sandy a question about child patient left before being seen as she triaged him, couldn't find her. HCA, Rihanna offered to look for her. Both came back. Rihanna asked Sandy of any concerns. Were both in front of me. Sandy didn't look at or otherwise engage with me. Responded. She had no concerns. I said, thanks. I needed to know for the letter, she did not acknowledge Me, either through words or eye contact, and left her area.

But But but... He missed out the waving at Sandie despite her only being a metre away.

These are all odd notes, and not how I make notes of things. I

"I can feel this dismissal hostility" huh?

I don’t read them as notes, more like an essay. An essay where someone has had time to consider exactly what should be included. In detail. Whilst being distraught and tearful. Apparently.

And its not dated.