NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

I'm sure in earlier testimony, Upton said 'I had never been spoken to like that in my life'. And it's like, bet you haven't matey.

His notes just compound that. The nasty nurse wasn't simpering enough for him and she had (as Dalgetty put it) the temerity to challenge a doctor.

I haven't been able to catch up on all threads... Any kind soul to help me find DrU's notes?

Imagine if Legal Team Sandie read these threads to get ideas for cross examination questions!

We might get a mention when Sandie writes a book about this case

Yeah and the sad thing for them is now they have pushed it so far that once women realise whats up they will never affirm or play along no matter how much the transes want it and speaking personally even if all this madness dies down and things go back to the way they were i think i will always feel this way now cos it only took 10 years for this to happen and now SP is in an ET for not wanting to be sexually harrased at work!

they are idiots then. Who jumps on a bandwagon as it is careering uncontrollably towards a cliff edge

Yes. Although as was kindly explained to me earlier, NC is also a junior; it's just that she's a senior junior. CE is a junior junior.

I might have misunderstood the context about the phone in all the flurry of copy-paste etc, plus I don't have the time to read wiser heads' interpretations in the Herald live blog etc.

So is it PD (Forensic Background IT Manager) did the 'forensic' investigation in as little time/effort/scrutiny as he could possibly get away with?

Then the Actual Forensic Guy is like 'well that's a lot of pish'?

And now the Respondents are giving PD a chance to spike AFG's conclusions before we even hear them in court?

I think any future employer of Upton needs to be wary of his contemporaneous note taking. He could possibly be in permanent litigation with employers and employees.

Maybe even shops he goes into, imagine ‘M&S Mabel didn’t say that I looked gorgeous in the skimpy lingerie I was trying on. She refused to look at me parading around the changing rooms. She hurt my feelings’ He might have JR on speed dial

I don’t even understand why there is a contemporaneous phone note about Christmas Eve, because he emailed a report of it to Kate Searle as soon as he got home, didn’t he? So when did he write this second essay? After sobbing all over Elsbeth Pitt but before emailing Kate Searle? Or after emailing Kate Searle? Because you no longer need a separate private log then, do you? Or am I missing something?

So if all this submission of info was done at a distance without the NHSFife guy sitting beside Dr Upton, there’s nothing to stop Upton having edited his notes, put other dates on them, stored them in a file which he could have open on a separate tab on his screen and just send them across to the IT guy as “screenshots” from there?

I demand a handbag collection pic from Sandie.
@DeanElderberry rub a bit of lemon on the sting. Sounds counterproductive but it honestly works

Those notes ........ well.

Delighted to be back and reading this and finding that things are looking good for SP.

Have been missing in action as have been involved in a tribunal (not gender but justice based) of my own and found out yesterday that I won my case, so i now have the bandwidth to re- engage here.

I would never have had the courage or knowledge to have gone through a tribunal without all that I have gleaned on this site and specifically in these threads. Thank you to you all, from the heart.

😂

I knew it reminded me of something. This!

I certainly wasn't taught at medical school to take notes about colleagues' behaviour, I was taught to take note OF the nurses' behaviour towards me and to assume that any issues that arose were likely to be due to my own attitude. Though I wouldn't have had to figure it out for myself, I'd have been telt, quick-sharp.

Having said that, much later in my career I made contemporaneous diary-style notes about a challenging colleague because "you couldn't make it up" and since I like writing it was the safest way of getting it out of my system, and those notes turned out to be very useful in supporting a non-clinical staff member who was hounded out of a job by that colleague and went to a tribunal.

Yep.

Musical interlude

Don't think much of his lyrics though

https://suno.com/s/mGrQESVLYBbLeOHj

They crave attention, that’s why they’re actors, they don’t stop to think about the consequences, not if it’s feeding their egos right now.

sad times Mr IT, sad times

Well done @Villagetoraiseachild ! Do you have a thread on it we can visit?

Having now read the transcript of the phone notes as recorded, even if they're 100% accurate accounts of what took place I don't see that SP's behaviour is especially blameworthy.

I think it’s fair enough for her to explain her discomfort at him being there but if she continued to make the same point after he said he felt uncomfortable and for her to raise it through formal channels, it becomes harassing.

I also think her naming her discomfort is right and proper but to say there are lots of other people who feel the same way, without naming them or having their permission to share that could be seen as creating a hostile environment. He then has to work in a place where people are apparently unhappy with him but has no way of addressing it.

I fully support SP in terms of the tribunal but the way she tried to tackle this with him, if as recorded, was clumsy at best.

Fantastic news, congratulations 💐

I suspect obtaining the compliance and punishing the offenders is part of the trans joy.

@tedgran Naomi's junior, yes - but very experienced

I have two middle names because DPs couldn’t agree which one. Sibs only have one middle each.
DSs have two as they have my maiden name, as there were going to be no others with that name. I wish I’d kept it myself, with hindsight.

I don't seem to be able to get in to Nitter using either of the links in the OP - does anyone have another instance that is working?