NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Because she was full of menopausal rage at the fucking fucker on the fucking e-scooter and decided to give him a piece of her mind.

@Largesso would you take ‘courteous’ as an alternative to ‘gentlemanly’?

Worth any derail for the term henopause.

Also way more interesting than scores of tedious posts spouting nonsense.

NHS Fife have about 8,000 staff, don’t they?

I wonder whether a few of them are lurking on this thread and are slightly aghast at their employer.

Presumably there was some sort of internal comms put out asking them not to comment whilst the ET was ongoing.

There are still quite a few witnesses to get through (even if submissions are postponed).

Foran speculates it is to do with discussions about the NHS Fife statement.

I speculate that there will also be myriad complaints coming in from the TRAs. Some of which might be very hostile.

I would imagine JR will be wanting to discuss threats too.

Plus they will be discussing the schedule and how to time the remaining witnesses etc

They might also be discussing further aspects of disclosure.

Gutted it’s a late start. I’m free this morning but not this afternoon.
i have to try and keep up so I can try to explain it all to DH. He is completely bemused by the whole thing.

I also think NC might be seeking an order to restrain JR from using the witness stand to smear SP.

I am still reeling - but really shouldn't be, given the way Stonewall and TRAs have made the rules up to fairly recently - that DU was trying to insinuate himself to help write the guidance for the hospital. That is how they've taken over everything!

Presumably there was some sort of internal comms put out asking them not to comment whilst the ET was ongoing.

Noone from NHS Fife has said a word, they certainly haven't said 1400, then added a bit, then cut a bit out, then changed what they said several times in a very public possibly libelous statement oh no no not them.

As a counter point to the kid glove treatment of Dr Upton having multiple chats with senior staff in the wellness room, 20 consultants being informed of the hate crime against him in case he needed to go home in the middle of a shift or not come in at all, being escorted to his car by a consultant etc etc I give you the experience of a colleague of mine.

When she was a junior doctor, younger than Dr Upton is, her mother died, and her consultant refused her the day off for her mother's funeral. She had to scrabble around and find a colleague who agreed to swap. Once she'd done that, she informed the consultant who very huffily said 'oh all right, you can make the time up the next day'.

She was just a boring standard kind of female junior doctor and she'd only lost a parent not been asked not to use a changing room she didn't belong in though, so not really as terrible an experience as Dr Upton endured that had all of these senior female staff dancing attendance on him.

Just popping on to thank @nauticant for another thread. I've been trying to catch up for two hours (including the 'derail discussion' thread and haven't even had breakfast.

About to download the Supercook app, though. There is a huge courgette (gift from a friend...) loitering in the fridge that I know DH (Head of Catering) will studiously ignore.

love this!

I started Day of Searle-fest with fresh waffles for breakfast.

The “I dont think u can prove the emails were linked” required a good dollop of Nutella to swallow that!

This case has been very enlightening for DH, I must say. I peaked a while ago and trying to explain to him what's going on has lead to quite a few arguments. As far as he is concerned, it's against the law to have men in sss, case closed, why am I still concerned? The amount of shicanery going on behind closed doors has been revealed. I've tried not to say "I told you !"

If it's a huge courgette, then it now identifies as a marrow!

Love stuffed marrow.

I think so as women in perimenopause can hyperovulate resulting in twin conception - sort of all eggs must go - which is what happened to me.

Women are used to hearing 'no'.
Anyone not validating Upton is at risk of him feeling 'uncomfortable' aka I will cry and destroy you.

With regards emails, I often start an email chain with 'Re:' if I've previously had a verbal conversation about the matter. I wonder if I'm using 'Re:' incorrectly? Thankfully, if I was in the hot seat, my header data would show that it was the start of the chain and not a response.

I do feel it's a bit unfair that NC is being pushed to complete her cross examinations faster. If the witnesses were telling the truth, we would probably only be on thread 15 (celery and Tunnock's bars notwithstanding) and her cross examinations would be picking up minor details and clarifications, not whopping porkies.

Thirdly, I feel that courts should allow a pointed cardboard finger to be held up by the opposing team, that says:

They're a liar wot lies!

That would make everything much quicker.

I wouldn't be surprised if Raynor puts in a public sector exemption.

Yes, that must be why I was waiting for three years for a hysterectomy on the NHS. They managed to work out my sex within a month in the private sector.

Have to share this most excellent witticism

https://x.com/journalistjill/status/1947770875412983944?s=12

I imagine, utter fantasy of course, that Big Sond has corralled NC and JR in his chamber and is telling JR to give in and give up.
Can Some lines be rended into pure Fife along the lines of the jig’s up Jane, get off your high horse and admit wee Naomi has bested you and it’s not an equal fight.
And apropos of a thread elsewhere, I once breakfasted with Naomi - we were staying in the same hotel at Cardiff FiLiA .

Reporting for duty.

Thanks (again) @nauticant and

I'm still agog and flabbers gasted at Dr Searle saying "you can't prove it" to Naomi Cunningham. Naomi Cunningham

And then the whole 'trust me, I'm a doctor' shtick. So were Harold Shipman and Simon Bromhall but we're not holding them up as pillars of society, are we?

Ooh I had waffles too - no Nutella though, just cinnamon sugar.
Talking of baking, it’s time for a public service announcement, in a Mel or Sue voice.
VIPERS YOU HAVE TWO HOURS, THAT’S TWO HOURS, TO GET SHIT DONE. On your marks, get set, BAKE! (Or work, or clean, or whatever it is you’ve got to do today!)

@Nameychangington that's horrendous and quite believable. I hope when all's said and done, certain senior Doctors at the Vic have a wee think to themselves. It would be pretty transphobic to have given Dr Upton special treatment because of gender identity.