NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

This is such a good point.

I’ve been thinking that it may also have a wider impact on public trust in the NHS. If it is shown that NHS staff, including consultants, have conspired to fail to disclose relevant emails, especially if other emails were deliberately edited or omitted to disguise it, in breach of a court order; that feels extremely serious. Made worse if KS then lied under oath yesterday. Plus NS highlighting that it wasn’t just one bad apple, at least 6 people decided not to comply with a court order; with the reasonable conclusion that was to cover up their wrongdoing.

If this is proven, what faith can any NHS service user now have that if something goes wrong, they will be given honest and truthful responses and reflection. Because the evidence yesterday points to a systemic issue where senior staff members will attempt to conceal all the facts in order to protect themselves, all while knowingly having “quick chats” so there can be no paper trail.

Lord could you imagine. I cringed when I read that she'd said that. Surely it's akin to describing her A&E department as "quiet". Something you privately think but wouldn't dare say aloud lest you tempt the gods of fate (or, in this case, Naomi Cunningham).

Bloody hell I've just had to skip through 5!!!!!! threads to catch up with you lot.

The reporting on this is driving me mad - not a good look for the bbc and others when public opinion on this has shifted (well, really just become aware of what's going on). Such an obvious bias is going to surely be detrimental to public trust in the media.

I bet the BBC coverage is being written by their gender woo correspondent or whatever they call him/her, rather than a proper journalist/reporter.

This is the very striking testimony from KS yesterday, that the BBC have no interest in:

KS I agree we shldnt have written these things in this group. I cant say whether it's been withheld. I dont think u can prove the emails were linked
NC These emails werent produced for the 1st hearings were they?
KS It appears not
NC There were 6 of you in this chain

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1947665871394029765

I think what NC does in response to J asking her to take less time is she collapses some if the work of plotting a careful path to ‘boom’ with witnesses and instead puts the ‘boom’ directly herself. It is less theatre but shows respect to the J.

She is doing a lot of impressive work re showing respect to the panel — allowing them to draw their own inferences without hammering every point home. It is sophisticated and gentlemanly (in a non gendered way of course!)

So darn clever.

This is partly why people are abandoning the BBC in droves, I read that 300,000 less licences were bought in the last year.

You cannot trust them. When you realise that they are essentially lying by omission, you start to wonder what else they are lying about, they have lost trust.

I haven't watched live TV in over 20 years. It's all rubbish.

Morning, Kate Searle Day seems to have turned into a bit of a three day festival.
Did you know that menopausal hens have higher likelihood to produce double yolk eggs. I appear to have several hens in henopause. Similar symptoms to women, they tend to seek cooler spots to rest due to hot flushes and become irritated more easily.

Wow @RocketPanda That's interesting.

Are chickens who produce more eggs a different gender?

At what age does a chicken become menopausal?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-bosses-wont-be-rewarded-for-failure-under-new-regulations

That is interesting re hens. I wondered if it's a similar phenomenon to periods in run up to menopause being much heavier. Final hormonal hurrahs.

NC is such a skilled brief these witnesses arent even twigging what they have admitted to thats kinda my favourite part tbh i hope we get to see more of these things play out publicly mostly cos its very educational but a little bit cos it is delicious to watch it unfold!!

Looking forward to seeing a pic of Dr “I can’t sex newborns” Searle arriving this morning. Will she be as chipper as yesterday?

Hahaha special cockhens, much better than normal hens. More sparkly.

Had a good start to today - brought up this case with my cleaner. She hadn't heard about it but was already fuming about the Ladies pond issue. I added in the WI claiming not to be a single sex organisation. Another woman moving up the peak!

Depending on breed it varies but usually around 5/6 years old.

Do all animals go through menopause? i was under the impression that it was only us and killer whales that did.. although now thinking about it the fact was that killer whales go through it around the same time as we do.. 🤔

I want to say thank you to everyone for educating me - or at least explaining the science of what I instinctively know. I am very fortunate in that, as a woman in my 70s, I do not know anyone who is not GC, ie, a realist. I have been so upset reading over the years of what countless women have had to put up with.

I long ago realised that there were several people of bad faith posting complete rubbish.

Thank you all for making my granddaughters safer in the future.

Good morning team, A big thank you to @nauticant for such dedication to the continuation of these threads. My time to sit back and follow the tribunal in real time has finally arrived and I must say what a spectacular time to be joining. NC vs KS round 2. I've had some sympathy for previous witnesses but this consultant's whole attitude in actually believing they are so superior and above the law is both rage and cringe inducing at the same time. And for someone so bright and successful shows such lack of basic general knowledge.

They do seem to be very similar to human females in terms of reproduction. Young hens are more likely to produce double yolk in the first month or so of laying as their body regulates and older hens going through henopause have a longer period of double yolking. They also suffer shell issues like lumpy looking shells or double shells or abnormally large shells.
Anyway I don't want to derail but just thought it was interesting.

Got as far as a post (on the last thread) about Moss from the IT crowd , and my abdomen developed a spark of pain at the memory of being doubled up with laughter at the episode in which he gives evidence in court. Calling the judge m'love instead of m'lord. And the perfect physical comedy of not being able to get out of the dock.
Glad I am not actually at the tribunal today. I would be telling myself "Don't think of Moss! Don't think of Moss!", in fear of disrupting the court with choking laughter.

IANAL but I dont understand what happens in private sessions and case management meetings like the one yesterday. Anyone have any insight as to what might be happening in these?

Also DH has left for work and wished me another enjoyable tribunal day 😆 Not much else has been getting done (probably the only good thing about having been made redundant is having the time to follow TT)

I don't know about all animals but just noticed my hens were double yolking a lot so I knew that's what was happening.