NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

KS I dint make an approach to Sp about her feeling uncomfortable
NC U saw her removing herself from CR as bad behaviour
KS Beth felt uncomfirtable that SP didnt want to engage...she was the only one behaving like this
NC That's not the Q. was making him uncomfy so classed as misbehaviour.
NC Isnt that confirmed on p270 in DU email to u at 3.17am. Her removal of herself was regarded as an "escalation of her behaviour"
KS Her prev actions weren't misbehaviour. we discussed but didnt so anything about it

Nothing Sandie could do was acceptable except remain in the changing room quietly and compliantly with Upton.

From TT

It was making him uncomfy so classed as misbehaviour.

Most of us are watching Tribunal Tweets, transcribing it in real time on Twitter here:
https://x.com/search?f=live&q=from%3Atribunaltweets&src=typed_query

Didn't Sandie say in her February evidence that she and a few other female colleagues, who also weren't comfortable with Dr Upton in the female CR, would wait outside? And gave their names? One of them was a female doctor I think.

JR said that there will be substantial re-examination of KS. That's effectively having to spend time repairing the standing of the witness with the court.

One of NC's superpowers is not to go after the witness when they say something outrageous like the DU uncomfortable thing, whereas I, and I think a lot of posters would want to say 'Oh Yeah, well what about poor Sandie? how do you think she was feeling..'
NC just moves on to something else. Different angle of attack.
I suppose that what they teach you in barrister school

We went an entire thread without any recipes and now I don't know what to have for my tea.

I think they are still discussing the statement.

The unspoken definition of "engage" is to take ones clothes off, get changed, go to the loo and change your sanitary wear just feet away with gaps under the door etc etc.

Gross.

SP is the wrong sort of woman, clearly

Isn't it SP making Dr U feel uncomfortable = hate crime
Dr U making SP feel uncomfortable also = SP hate crime because she didn't just get changed despite feeling uncomfortable and that made poor Beth sad.

The only reason for yesterday's recipes was to fill the time caused by the delay in proceedings.

Has there been a Ally Witness so far who hasn't misgendered DU?

It's making me question if there are actually any True Believers at all.

NC These emails w IB were about this issue. DU was keen to help develop trust policies.

Of course he was. He was hoping to control policy so that he could continue to seek validation in the women's changing room.

KS is a prime example of how belief in gender ideology makes people say really, really stupid things.

Also, Sandie was presumably uncomfortable being in a changing room with a man undressing, regardless of what she herself was wearing.

(Obviously a different scenario to treating a male patient on a ward.)

Judge is thinking already about when to have lunch tomorrow - perhaps we could post some luncheon recipes for him?😁

TT's (explosive) Afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1947656145868308870.html

From TT

KS I dint make an approach to Sp about her feeling uncomfortable
NC U saw her removing herself from CR as bad behaviour
KS Beth felt uncomfirtable that SP didnt want to engage...she was the only one behaving like this
NC That's not the Q

The ring has computed 4 moves ahead, this line has no good ending for KS. The ring just lights up - now there are six green lights.

NC It was making him uncomfy so classed as misbehaviour.
NC Isnt that confirmed on p270 in DU email to u at 3.17am. Her removal of herself was regarded as an "escalation of her behaviour"
KS Her prev actions weren't misbehaviour. we discussed but didnt so anything about it
NC These emails w IB were about this issue. DU was keen to help develop trust policies. Which might make it easier to take things forward if ppl refused to undress w him

Fifer (suddenly sits up out of his slightly pished reverie about Susan). Oft this is goin big noo. Naebdy saw this comin.

KS No, I dont agree, NHS Scotland were due to be writing policies (?)

J How long do u have to go
NC I need another hr. I underestimated the time.

Fifer : osha bastart, she's only hauf done. Ye ken when you've pit your microwave lasagne on for 18 minutes on full power by mistake instead of defrost? Well I'm no watchin proceedings (and I deh exist tae be fair) but ah'd imagine Dr Searle looks a bit like that lasagne richt the noo.

J Can u return tmrw KS?
KS Yes I can
J Can u return at 11am tomorrow so u dont have a long wait? We'll do well to complete SK(SK?) before lunch. How long for the other witnesses?
JR Maggie Curra [discuss]

Whatever the ring has in store, will need to wait until tomorrow. Six Lights, and an hour to go yet.

J Actually, can u return at 11.30 and we may need a late lunch tomorrow.
JR I have a lot of Qs to ask - I have been saving these up.
NC I may need more time w MC
J We need to be careful about our timetble
JR Lauren Harris was due to come tmrw but she may have to come another day

Big Sond : I'll let you sort out the timetable between you. See you tomorrow (fuckin Bingo Cairds, shit idea that wis, another score in the hole tae wee dougie the clerk)

[SESSION ENDS]

How blatantly predatory of him.

It looks like NC has had an examination of the metadata of the stuff that Fife has disclosed - I wonder if there is evidence of more non-disclosure?

Also wonder if they are going to need to allot some new court days as I can't see them being done in the time remaining

She also made it clear she's been "saving it up so as to not interrupt"<tinkly laugh>

Normally no qualms about interrupting. I think she knows she needs time to magic up a strategy.

Well Searle is as arrogant as I expected..

You can't prove it!

But of a stupid thing to a barrister who has clearly unearthed your hidden emails. I highly suspect she can PROVE it and that's where the IT guy will come in. What an obnoxious transmaiden she is

How silly is she going to look to all the sane consultants in the UK.

Anyone else keep reading Lauren Harris as Lauren Harries?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Harries

Any guesses on what the BBC headline will be tonight?