NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

🙏

Well, this thread can now go in the bin. Fingers crossed the derailing doesn't continue onto the continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

There are some posters I will reply to for the benefit of lurkers, and some who just hopelessly derail any thread they are on however excellent I feel my arguments are, because the only way to win is to not play.

Foran has explained that the chain was submitted at first iteration of disclosure this additional email was submitted on April 5. If NC is right, which all evidence suggests she is, and this first email of the chain was not included then it shows collusion and obstruction of justice.

Is that not a criminal offence?
So it will be the 6 of them in the dock

I'm a physician in Europe and shocked by her transphobia. Disgusting person.

That's nice dear.

You think it's 'disgusting' for a woman to not want to change in front of a man?

I mean srsly? That's what you think?

Foran has explained that the chain was submitted at first iteration of disclosure this additional email was submitted on April 5. If NC is right, which all evidence suggests she is, and this first email of the chain was not included then it shows collusion and obstruction of justice.

Could someone in IT or higher management have removed the email? If they were going through everything before handing it over? I’d have thought individuals had to gather all their information and pass it over to someone who was dealing with the court for them to submit all the information gathered in one bundle all together.

i don't understand how/why respondents are trusted to provide e mails in a tribunal from their own searches. Its obvious they would not provide an extremely damning e mail. Shouldn't someone from IT be doing this?

Sandie Peggie was viewed as misbehaving, lawyer claims

https://www.thetimes.com/article/3bc4f059-5867-49ed-80ca-e7ba98e04bb7?shareToken=6ab91c56b38f78ad4d7ba021648266c9

Hope the share token works.

An employer might be a small business with no IT department.

I'm trying to work my way through our larder and freezer before our summer holiday. It's made for some interesting combinations. Last night I had boil in the bag cod with parsley sauce with microwaveable Mexican fried rice.

It was surprisingly edible.

No-one else in my family thought so though. (Heathens).

Well he doesn’t, so he isn’t, and he’s a man. Always was always will be.

I was bored shitless with T LookAtMe's posts yesterday but took the opportunity to get a much needed full night's sleep.

Completely agree. People can post about whatever they like, but I am v much looking forward to getting back to the amazing NC action in court today.

Oh god. The words YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT were so marvellous yesterday. I hope Kate Searle had a lovely night thinking over the events of the day.

We do seem to get a lot of “doctors” who think single se spaces and women’s rights are transphobic. I think they’re as much doctors as male people are women.

Haha I would do this but would need to eat those particular items as two mini courses. Or tapas style on separate plates. 😁

Not all, only a very, very, very minute (and ever diminishing) few. Because of my situation I am in contact with many medical practitioners and not one of them, when the topic has come up, are captured by this pseudoscience misogynistic cult.

Please don’t misgender Tandora like that. Sex is a multidimensional multiverse meta non binary multifaceted organism on a linear spectrum.

As for disgusting - that’s very harsh.

Delighted you are a physician on a continent. Useful information.

Ah this is the problem. Celeriac is nutty deliciousness if you enjoy it but should never be a forced substitute for anything else.

NO!! Many of us warned mumsnet against installing it because we knew it would only be used to mock and bully and abuse posters (in the same way people on facebook 'laugh' at people's comments) and it was, hence we again campaigned, successfully, for it's removal. It never should have existed in the first place. You have laugh emojis you can use. It's really not that big a deal. Here they are; 😂😆

Copyright - Getty

Thank you!

I think yesterday's reveal was a bit complicated and too unfinished to be distilled in the press as the headline it deserved (in the opinion of fanatics like us!)

The article does set out the problem very clearly in Searle's own words, though.

“Beth identifying as a female has every right, under the Equality and Human Right Commission Act [sic] to use the facilities under the gender in which she identifies,” Searle said.

However, she went on to admit that many women may feel uncomfortable about taking their clothes of in the presence of a man."

“Beth identifying as a female has every right, under the Equality and Human Right Commission Act [sic] to use the facilities under the gender in which she identifies,” Searle said.

Nope. He never had that right, since the facilities are sex-based, and not 'gender identity' based, as the SC found.

However, she went on to admit that many women may feel uncomfortable about taking their clothes of in the presence of a man."

Oh really? You don't say! I'd say not just "many" but 99.999999999999999999999999% of women.