NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

@SlackJawedDisbeliefXY
Below is a mid period copy of the statement with 'to be clear' edits

mid period 😂

Right: I've emailed Sex Matters, as I did last March during Phase 1 of the tribunal, to tell them that if they see an uptick in donations, that'll be us

In March I wrote
It was decided that the most appropriate way to show our gratitude would be to make donations to a suitable cause - we made donations to the Peggie family's chosen charity in memory of Sandie's late father, and in this case we chose Sex Matters, not only because it does such valuable work which we greatly admire, but because Naomi Cunningham is Chair of your Board of Trustees.

and I said something similar this time, including a ref to the NHSF statement.

I also assumed I was on safe ground asking them to pass on our good wishes and appreciation to Naomi - I can read the room😁And the team, naturellement...

So anything you donate, whether anonymous or not, will be IDed as from us. Well probably from us - hopefully lots more people are donating as a gesture of soliarity in response to NHSF's smears.
Donate to Sex Matters - Sex Matters

As before, I'll post any responses I get from SM... or anybody else😍.. on here.

There are only limited circumstances where a barrister can unilaterally withdraw from a case. They cannot withdraw just because they are fed up with their client, but they can withdraw if their client's actions make it impossible for them to continue ethically.

I wonder why JR was selected for the job. Maybe she lost a bet.

They’ve removed the first but about Sex Matters saying things in public and the bit about NC being chair of Sex Matters. They do left the later added qualifier saying they don’t mean to imply Sex Matters is responsible for death threats which was undoubtedly the earlier implication alongside the implication that NC is biased because she is a hair of Sex Matters which again demonstrates the limited intellectual powers at play. As others have mentioned she is clear in her position but that doesn’t mean she can’t argue the law.

Also, removing the defamatory paragraphs after publication doesn’t protect you, I don’t think, from a defamation case being brought?

Also, how silly to remove those paras but not the later added qualifier.

She is a true believer who has been involved in several of these cases. TRAs and their allies don't seem to care that she always loses.

Fife's statement attacking a current employee is extraordinary. Especially in light of the fact that they announced just before the ET reconvened that their own internal inquiry cleared SP of misconduct.

Who on earth at Fife thought this was a good idea - did they decided it over Friday lunchtime drinks in the pub? 🍻🍸🍷🍹🍺

Jane Russell must be seething as the gaffe gave her no opportunity to really clear up the mess of her witnesses statement about SP's GC beliefs
LC - I think she had an intolerance to people who are transgender
JR what made you think that
LC because she told me she didnt agree with a male changing in female CR

Correct - removing the paragraphs doesn't protect them. At best it will limit the damages awarded.

To be fair to JR, she's been asked to polish turds here.

Thanks for this suggestion, just made a donation too. I hope others that can afford to will make a donation, big or small it will let Sex Matters know we appreciate all they do.

I was feeling a tiny bit sorry for her when the statement dropped, presumably without warning to her?

Barristers have to do their best for their clients, otherwise the justice system wouldn't work, so I try not to take what they say as expressions of personal beliefs.
But in JR's case, they are her personal beliefs?
Right then, zero sympathy for you JR!

Whoops, sorry

Donated.
Thank you all for your commentary.

Can’t imagine any barrister would want the job but there’s always random barristers unexpectedly available because a case has finished early or been rescheduled at the last minute

Och aye, sure she's a loony too. But how can she be expected to defend this lot? They're not just dropping themselves in the shit, they're rolling around on the floor and smearing it all over themselves.

This was the jaw drop moment today for me:
LC - I think she had an intolerance to people who are transgender
JR what made you think that
LC because she told me she didnt agree with a male changing in female CR

I mean, I know we have been here before, with Jo Phoenix and with ERCC, but it constantly amazes me how little empathy some women have for people who think single sex spaces/data etc are important.

And even if you do personally think that TW belong in female changing rooms, it is quite some leap to get to 'women who don't want to get changed in front of a male are intolerant to transgender people'. It is like saying 'people who don't believe in transubstantiation are intolerant to Catholics'.

And if you think that women have no right to want single sex spaces and are intolerant if they do, then presumably you think NHS Fife should be found not to have discriminated against Sandie. And if you think that, and understand remotely what the whole Tribunal is about, then surely you should realise that saying 'I think she had an intolerance to people who were transgender because she told me that she didn't agree with a male in a female changing room' is not a good idea!!

Maybe Jolyon. High profile case - he could ride in to defend DU. Leaving JR on damage limitation for Fife.

Oh god, have you seen how he carries on on social media? I can just imagine him...

'This so-called nurse, who is an anti-trans hate group, bigotedly expected so-called privacy and so-called dignity in a so-called women's changing room. It doesn't matter what the so-called EHRC, another anti-trans hate group, or the so-called unanimous judgment of the so-called Supreme Court says, they don't say what I want them to say and that's transphobic.'

Am a bit behind due to dinner duties but two more articles from the express
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-fife-female-consultants-who-35579159?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/sandie-peggie-tribunal-branded-farce-35577560?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Nice to see donations to SM - I can do a 'Give us your fuckin' money' in a perfect Bob Geldof voice, if it helps😁

Imagine if Dad's Army ran a Hospital in 2025 with a doctor who was a transwoman.

And here we are.

Don't panic!
Don't tell him your name Pike.

Wait... so she's a trans rights activist who uses her advocacy skills to argue for trans rights in legal settings?

So how is that any different to NC having a position with Sex Matters and using her own skills to argue for women's rights in tribunals and court? Why did Fife have to go over all that as if it were somehow wrong when they're doing the exact same thing?

Not even random ones. Even the best counsel can become available at short notice if they crack their trial / settle.

And some are astounding at the speed they can read, retain, and assimilate even the largest of briefs.

I am utterly at a loss to understand Fife’s behaviour. A statement that long and detailed would have taken a fair bit of time to draft and proof read. I cannot believe that some reasonably senior people were not required to authorise its publication. This is not the work of a misguided intern or junior admin person.
In one fell swoop they achieved:

1. Giving SP’s lawyers a massive free shot at an open goal
2. Annoyed the Tribunal
3. Undermined their own lawyer’s ability to undo some of the more damaging witness evidence
4. Triggered a fresh investigation by the rather fed up Scottish ICO
5. Got BBC headlines changed from positive spin to negative
6. Brought the case to the notice of even more people because this is the sort of thing the press loves

Its a textbook example of what not to do.

After Fife's leak where they called the Information Commissioner 'emotional', I hope he enjoyed calling them 'petulant'. I bet he was just disappointed he couldn't call them 'fuckwits'.

Great idea to encourage donations, I've just made my own too. I'm a lurker on these threads - this week's evidence, and today's shenanigans in particular, have demonstrated staggering incompetence and utter twattery on the part of NHS Fife and underlines the importance of Sandie's case prevailing and it reaching the widest audience possible. Huge thanks to all who've kept the updates on the thread coming, much appreciated (as have been the most amusing and welcome Fifer commentary). Back to the wine...