NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

Would it be possible for people to turn their attention to this post by @FayeRCfrom the previous thread:

I have a similar court case in England's side which aims to protect single-sex facilities for women. It is in need of support to cover legal fees and can be found by searching for Faye Russell-Caldicott on crowdjustice.com

Witnesses in the hearing so far with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton

collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone

Friday 18 July 2025
Elspeth Pitt
Louise Curran

For anyone following Tribunal Tweets, this is their list of abbreviations used:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R1/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
IB - Isla Bumba
GM - Gillian Malone
EP - Elspeth Pitt
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

I can't comment until TT publish but this is fucking disgraceful. You'll see

Just hanging on to keep up. 🙏

just following the threads. Can't wait.

Argh I wish I were watching!

This is placemarking, but I can't wait to see how the BBC headlines and covers the verdict in this tribunal...

LC says 'Beth' 'we all knew Beth' already from another dept, apparently?

I think the reason it sticks in my craw so much, this whole thing is that the men are instantly believed. On zero evidence. Women always have to prove and prove and still face doubt.

Im looking forward to hearing the updates from those watching live but very thankful to all who are for respect of the court rules and SP

LC knew from email sent in Aug that SP objected to DrU in CR.

Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
5m
We resume
aths taken
J when you give you evidence, I write it all down, so please go slowly
JR - what is your role
LCn senior charge nurse
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
JR What does it involve
Day to day running, patient care, nursing and managerial duties
Can you descrive relationship with SP
Line manager so prof relationship
How long?
Since 2020 when promoted
JR Describe relationship
LC Prof working relationship
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
JR- were you aware of her GC views
LC - nothing direct
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
LC - views of religion, politcis but I've not witnessed directly so can't elaborate
JR -are you familiar with GC views
LC- they do not recognise um that they do not belive there is more than m or female and you can't change your gender that is my understanding
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
JR When were you first aware
LC Not aware until this tribunal
JR -( refers to bundle of papers) 1186
this is an email to JD to you end August 23 do you recall it.
LC - I don't recall it.
JR would you describe your awareness of DU coming to your dept. We all knew beth starting
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
she had working in Psy Depty
JR - in the email do you recall when you were first aware of mention
LC - Sandie approached ED not long after to say she wasn't happy. ED has sought advice from IB
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
4m
When were you first aware of this email?
Sometime in August
Can you recall what advice was?
that she had the right to change in the female changing room
Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
JR - refers to bundle - issues prior to incident
can you read to yourself and I will ask you of your awareness of this. Can everyone read this to themselves.
JR - what strong beliefs
Lc - that Sandie was not happy with Beth in changing room
JR - conv Peggie in Oct where?

JR - what did she say [conversation with SP in Oct I think]
LC - she would like to hightlight what she had discussed with ED. Not happy with Beth changing with her I said that was aware of concerns also aware that ED had spoken to EDI and using that advice. Use other changing rm if wanted

I wish I was watching too but I realised too late that you had to apply by 8 July, and I assume you can't apply once the hearing is underway.

One of the things I find endlessly fascinating about this madness is the claimed victimhood of these people. If I were Dr Beth Upton I'd be embarrassed to go round telling people that I'd been upset and distressed and distraught and in tears because a little feisty Scottish woman 20 years my senior had been direct with me. Why would anyone sane choose to make themselves look that pathetic? I wonder what Upton's wife makes of being married to such a cry-baby.

Someone on the last thread mentioned people being in the Edinburgh/St Andrew's bubbles and not understanding other people.

I've met a few of those. Private school in Edinburgh, uni at St Andrew's, back to Edinburgh to work for one of the big financial institutions. Only really frequent the New Town/Polwarth/Morningside type parts of Edinburgh and seem to have no concept of the different people who make up the city. Or the how the more difficult parts of the history of the city (heroin/HIV/football casuals/deprivation) still impact to this day.

LC - main in older building in the basement and the well being room, has a locked door can be used by any member of staff,
alt. CR suggested to SP...but not to DrU.

Must be a shock to encounter patients.

Edinburgh Uni currently has a problem with the posh twats bullying other students for having Scottish accents!!

I wonder what Upton's wife makes of being married to such a cry-baby.

For better for worse, I guess.
I doubt this was what she had in mind just a few years ago though.
Actually I feel for her a bit.

JR - any awareness of SP DU interactions
LC - no direct communication, was aware Sandie not happy , not brought to me as manager
JR how?
LC - just other conversations - that she will walk out of cubicles, not happy

'just other conversations' = hearsay, rumour and gossip already being believed.

She needs pointing to the transwidows thread.

From previous thread #30
@rebmacesrevda
And she probably can't even claim overtime for it. Should get double pay for having to do that sort of nonsense.

EP was on call. She wouldn't be able to claim overtime if it's part of her normal duty. It's the norm for most A&E departments that a consultant is in the department until midnight then at home on call for the rest of the night. A registrar will be left in charge who will call the consultant to return to the department if necessary or sometimes just for advice over the phone. Generally the registrar does not need to call the consultant.
A Major Trauma Centre will have at least one consultant in the department overnight but possibly napping in an on call room if the department isn't too busy.

Didn't TT miss an outrageous accusation against Sandie? I'm sure it occurred early on.

Kate Searle's email (from Maya Forstater on X):