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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

1000 replies

nauticant · 18/07/2025 12:49

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:47

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 13:42

Didn't TT miss an outrageous accusation against Sandie? I'm sure it occurred early on.

Yes!! I can't comment because TT haven't published it. It's the most shocking in my opinion. How have they left that out??

Butchyrestingface · 18/07/2025 13:48

Is Sandie off work just now?

OhBuggerandArse · 18/07/2025 13:48

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:47

Yes!! I can't comment because TT haven't published it. It's the most shocking in my opinion. How have they left that out??

I missed it. Will you hang about and tell us at the break?

HalfWomanHalfHobnob · 18/07/2025 13:49

The suspense!

Olderbadger1 · 18/07/2025 13:49

RocketPanda · 18/07/2025 13:34

I think the reason it sticks in my craw so much, this whole thing is that the men are instantly believed. On zero evidence. Women always have to prove and prove and still face doubt.

Absolutely this! Family courts are full of abused women whose accounts are dismissed as lies or exaggeration. Perpetrator dad rocks up and his every word is sacrosanct. First rule of the patriarchy.

AtoC · 18/07/2025 13:49

From the previous thread, I was too late to respond there:

"Who knew the wild card would pull off an amazing performance. I wonder who coaches her?"

I'm not so sure that she is just a wild card. CE has already appeared unled in a number of EAT cases (and she used to lecture in law at Oxford University).

Boiledbeetle · 18/07/2025 13:50

This is maddening!

IDareSay · 18/07/2025 13:50

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:47

Yes!! I can't comment because TT haven't published it. It's the most shocking in my opinion. How have they left that out??

It has been tweeted about by Robbie Travers, who I believe is in the tribunal.

https://x.com/RobbieTravers/status/1946186550854680948

https://x.com/RobbieTravers/status/1946186550854680948

MyrtleLion · 18/07/2025 13:51

I'm still stunned that no-one in HR or legal ever checked the Equality Act or the Workplace Regulations for themselves about the rights of women and those with a GRC.

maltravers · 18/07/2025 13:51

lumenleaf · 18/07/2025 13:43

Kate Searle's email (from Maya Forstater on X):

How inappropriate. So keen to virtue signal that all ideas of fairness, due process and confidentiality are thrown out of the window.

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:52

OhBuggerandArse · 18/07/2025 13:48

I missed it. Will you hang about and tell us at the break?

I don't think I can do that. But i imagine Boswell will pick it up.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 18/07/2025 13:52

This is just all so awful.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 18/07/2025 13:53

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:52

I don't think I can do that. But i imagine Boswell will pick it up.

I believe you can report after the fact, just not live in real-time.

Needspaceforlego · 18/07/2025 13:53

Greyskybluesky · 18/07/2025 13:41

I wonder what Upton's wife makes of being married to such a cry-baby.

For better for worse, I guess.
I doubt this was what she had in mind just a few years ago though.
Actually I feel for her a bit.

I'm surprised shes not walked away.
Does she still see him as a good catch or a big perv?
I don't want to know what goes on behind closed doors.

rebmacesrevda · 18/07/2025 13:54

PC of sexual orientation? Are they saying he's a lesbian and SP's a homophobe now?!

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 13:54

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:52

I don't think I can do that. But i imagine Boswell will pick it up.

See IDareSay's post above - Robbie Travers tweet.

There's your answer.

Szygy · 18/07/2025 13:54

IDareSay · 18/07/2025 13:50

It has been tweeted about by Robbie Travers, who I believe is in the tribunal.

https://x.com/RobbieTravers/status/1946186550854680948

I didn’t think there was any lower you could go than ‘beneath contempt’.

But it seems there is.

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 13:54

That was to BuggerandArse.

nauticant · 18/07/2025 13:55

rebmacesrevda · 18/07/2025 13:54

PC of sexual orientation? Are they saying he's a lesbian and SP's a homophobe now?!

Upton will identify as a lesbian I'd assume.

OP posts:
NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 18/07/2025 13:55

JR - refers to bundle - issues prior to incident can you read to yourself and I will ask you of your awareness of this. Can everyone read this to themselves.
JR - what strong beliefs
Lc - that Sandie was not happy with Beth in changing room
JR - conv Peggie in Oct where?

Continues where Ikky left off from TT:

LC - in the handover area
JR - what did she say
LC - she would like to hightlight what she had discussed with ED. Not happy with Beth changing with her I said that was aware of concerns also aware that ED had spoken to EDI and using that advice. Use other changing rm if wanted

LC - said she would check with ED to see ifany change in policy
JR - Mentioned alt
LC - main in older building in the basement and the well being room, has a locked door can be used by any member of staff, and the pubic rooms where i have witnessed her changing in the past

JR you said you were going to check with ED
LC-= Yes I did, was there any further guidance? She said no it still stands.
JR - Would you describe if you relayed this back to SP
LC - yes
JR - when?
LC - no, I didn't Sandie only works night shifts, I didn't see her, I don't recall

JR - any awareness of SP DU interactions
LC - no direct communication, was aware Sandie not happy , not brought to me as manager
JR how?
LC - just other conversations - that she will walk out of cubicles, not happy

JR -( sound dropped )
refers top P463 to top of 464 Q2
JR - take a moment to read. Where did this take place this conv?
LC - in the consultant corridor outside my office
JR - the acc gives no names, who was involved?
LC - it was obvious who it was

JR -= she describes there was a diff what did Dr Searle say
LC That a conv had taken place in CR not very nice, confrontational, left Beth upset, scared and vulnerable. I said can I ask which nurse and nature of conv. That Sandie said she shouldn't change in there because...

..female. That LC not sure what to do, get advice from HR. Knew nothing to do immediately as Sanie not on shift tif following eve Sat 30 Dec
JR Who did you contact from HR?
LC Didn't as none there. Contacted Jamie
JR Why did Dr S contact you?
Because I'm the manager

LC - I made a note of the conv
JR after Searle when did you speak to Jamie.
LC The following day, around 12 oclock
JR 15 December - conversation with Jamie Doyle - please read. where did it take place
LC - in his office, clinicial nurse mgrs office. Around 12 -1 oclock

JR = would you explain why you spoke to him
LC - most sen. mgr on site that day. He is more educated experience in this
LC I said I had been approached by Dr Searle that a serious complaint was made, told the extent of the complaint. Relating to situation and Sandie had advised

..Beth had no right to be there as not female. The doctor was considering reporting to the police as a hate incident. What was his response He said we should go and look at the ED policy which led us to the bullying policy and the NMC code of conduct and we would need to seek

..HR advice on this
JR - P 537 - and at 538 - the definitions of bullying and harrassment. What were your thoughts?
LC - protected chara of gender reass and sexual orientation.
JR - Looking at p549 - examples of bullying behaviour

LC - unacceptable tone, mainly the threatening behaviour
Jr - examples of harassing behaviours = types
LC - yes gender reassignment, gender identity, failure to use requested pronouns
Why is this relevant
LC - because trans people come under protected charas

MarieDeGournay · 18/07/2025 13:55

LC mentions LC - 'protected chara of gender reass and sexual orientation' neither of which applied to DrU who is not gay and does not have a GRC.

Jaws2025 · 18/07/2025 13:55

Is anyone pasting in TT?
sorry, crossed posts!

maltravers · 18/07/2025 13:55

“Unacceptable tone”. Jesus and hello Aunt Lydia.

ThatCyanCat · 18/07/2025 13:55

Is A&E, or a hospital in general, a good place to work for a man who breaks down shaking and in tears when someone notices that he's a man? He doesn't pass at all so we can be sure patients know he's a man. Have none of them ever mentioned it? Nobody's ever said something like "he's helping me" within his earshot?

GreenFriedTomato · 18/07/2025 13:56

Rightsraptor · 18/07/2025 13:54

See IDareSay's post above - Robbie Travers tweet.

There's your answer.

I'll err in the side of caution and wait for someone to publish a transcript

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