NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

Bloody hell.

Here's the best line so far
JR - P598 upholding reputation of profession

LC - act with honesty and integrity at all time
and how's that been going in NHS Fife, eh?

They are apparently trying for a child.

What has sexual orientation got to do with it? Are they suggesting that as well as being a racist, from hearsay, SP is homophobic too?

Witch hunt. They wanted to report her to police for not getting her kit off in front of a man and not lying a man is a woman like the other handmaidens do.

@justabaker thanks for everything you're doing. But how have you missed such an important interaction ?

From TT:

JR - refers to bundle - describes prioritising people and upholding dignity
JR - why this>?
LC - because we thought it was relevant because not respecting human rights
JR - P598 upholding reputation of profession
LC - act with honesty and integrity at all time

LC - shouldn't express personal and moral beliefs.
JR - you said you looked at anything else
LC - no
JR - after we looked at this, enough info that it was a serious enough accusation. Advised by JD to put Sandie on special leave and I was to phone and tell her

JR - How long was the leave to last for.
LC - one shift until speak to HR and go forward with plan after that
JR - describe if you are aware if JD aware of GC beliefs
LC - not aware

Agree. And the consequences for the children can be catastrophic, sometimes fatal.

And as well as women's accounts being dismissed as exaggeration, women are often told they need to be more robust. To stop making such a fuss. A man puts his hand up your skirt, or makes a joke about your breasts, or pinches your bum, and you're supposed to just smile and carry on stoically. What a silly, pathetic woman you are to care about these things.

But if a woman tells a man he shouldn't be in the women's changing room, then it's full-on drama, tears, disciplinary procedures and suspension. The sheer fucking injustice of it is enough to make you want to smash things.

You don't need a GRC to have PC of GR (this was helpfully crucial to the FWS win as can't have a 2 tier PC).

@MarieDeGournay upton had the protected characteristic of gender reassignment as that applies when you start a process, no GRC required. He only had the protected characteristic of sexual orientation if you consider him lesbian - and he isnt one.

Upton claims that he is a lesbian despite being an intact male who is trying to impregnate his wife. He also claims that they suffer homophobia because they are a lesbian couple.

One “shouldn't express personal and moral beliefs.” opines LC having slagged off SP for not believing in GI and the fragrant DU’s right to be present when SP takes her clothes off.

I don't think he's had any surgery.

@PrettyDamnCosmic I think that's the guy in the Darlington Nurses case that's trying for a baby with his wife

LC - shouldn't express personal and moral beliefs

Like 'Hi everybody, I'm Theo, I was born male but I want everyone to agree that I am now a biological woman called Beth' is not expressing personal and moral beliefs??

If this is true why was it not dealt with by management?

(of point- Haven't the GRC board just refuse a GRC to a woman trying to get pregnant who says she's a man? So wonder if same rules will apply to Upton if he's trying for a child with his wife.)

Upton did refer to himself as a lesbian or to himself & wife as a 'queer couple' or similar when he was giving evidence. It was in relation to being stared at in public I think. Personally, I think he misinterpreted the stares.

PC of sexual orientation? Are they saying he's a lesbian and SP's a homophobe now?!

Pretty sure they tried that at the start of the hearing, and did the fastest U-turn you've ever seen from that line of questioning when Sandie responded that her daughter is a lesbian?

I'm still fretting about the fact that while EP was consoling this performatively snivelling lump of a bloke, there could have been a wee nurse lying throttled on the changing room floor. I know there wasn't, but EP had no way of knowing that at the time.

Thanks to nauticant for the thread. Not really fair to talk about Upton's wife. She's probably drunk the cool aid and doesnt want to be seen as the baddie by leaving/ divorcing him.

Robbie Travers AT Robbie Travers
I just watched Sandie Peggie’s daughters listen to Jane Russell KC ask Louise Curran about whether Sandie has “racist” views. Apparently she heard these “second, third or fourth hand…” “about the smell of their food.” This is deeply shameful stuff.

Jack David AT FFS_WhatNow
It's a witch hunt. They'll do anything to smear her. Truly disgraceful behaviour.

Robbie Travers AT Robbie Travers
The way Sandie’s family are managing to face this utter shambolic farce with such resilience & reacting with such dignity is admirable. They know this is the last gasp attempts to smear a woman. Will they bring up that she has stayed at a Trump owned hotel again?

Jack David AT FFS_WhatNow
We know these people well enough by now. They don't let the truth get in the way of trying to win an argument and ruining someone in the process.

Cassandra ATgetstuffedtwit
This is the NHS, it's a nasty, woke, political, backstabbing shit hole and that is down to both staff and management who perpetuate it unhindered by any sort of disciplinary action or whistleblowing.

Robbie Travers AT Robbie Travers
It’s also incredibly careless, you can see that Jane Russell isn’t pleased about her confession about this hearsay heresy. This is painting a bullying & harassing conduct endemic on these wards - but it isn’t originating from Sandie Peggie.

True story: a friend of mine was a temporary lecturer years ago at St Andrews Uni - he's from a working class background in Glasgow. He's perfectly understandable to me and I'm not from the UK.

Posh twat announces 'I can't understand you'. To be told 'Do you understand fuck off?' (imagine Weegie accent)

No problems after that.

From TT:

JR - p731 back to your notes when had conv with JD and Dr Searle. You ref that the allegation is that the member of staff was delib abusive and a hate crime. Why did you write that? Why did you charac this way?
LC - that is what Dr Searle had said about it,
JR - (refers to doc)

JR - deals with subject matter - the words 'hate crimes' and bullet points. Would you describe your understanding of what they say in relation of what you were told.
LC - harassment
JR - P722 Email Dr Searle to you and ED
LC - that was sent after conv with Jamie

I wonder, given that CE is already so eminent in her profession, whether she has decided to take on this case as a junior in order to broaden her knowledge of Gender Critical issues and points of law pertaining to that? After all, although Naomi Cunningham is indeed quite wonderful, she says herself that the main thing that makes her so effective is the fact that few barristers have any knowledge of (or concern about) the specific points of law surrounding these issues. And from Cunningham's point of view the more the merrier, I would have thought.