NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

You’ll be in big trouble if it coincidentally turns out she has a big ring and was fiddling with it :O

NC addressing SP's other alleged but not witnessed 'behaviours'

Who was it who said that this is like the opposite of Spartacus, where it's just people all pointing at each other shouting, "HE's Spartacus!"

Ba-dum tishhh! 😄

<Sniggers>

I'm heading to Fife later this summer. On the basis that a significant number of the NHS staff there neither understand sex nor practice IP&C at work, I am fervently hopeful I don't need healthcare whilst there

Lolylo

Did we? I was born in the seventies, most of my grandparents generation had not been to university and left school at 14, my parents similarly and left school at 15. The tv channels and print media were infused with a largely white, middle class, male view of the world - challenged a bit as the the working classes started getting into uni. Politicians were mc, even aristocratic. What books from 60-70 years early showed a ‘diverse’ world view? The western literary cannon wasn’t diverse.

While I see what you're saying, I broadly agree with DeanElderberry. Neither my parents or grandparents had education beyond 14/16 but I wouldn't class them as "un-educated" Their generations' experiences during the World Wars and austerity led to questioning the established order and bringing about social change. The limited media available meant that what there was would be sucked up like a sponge and exposure to differing viewpoints more likely than today where people can live in their own echo chambers and ignore inconvenient truths that don't fit their established world view.

I was dangerously close to having a stroke earlier, but now you're here I'm laughing my blood pressure back down.

My understanding is that GRis the only protected characteristic that doesn't work both ways.

A man can claim sex discrimination as can a woman.
Someone without the PC of gender reassignment cannot claim discrimination on the grounds of not having GR.

That's why it should be scrapped.

Would you look at that, I've caught up!
My Babel fish is struggling to keep up with the Fife, I might have to get it (him? Her? Them?) upgraded.

You're taking your life in your hands!

But at least you've had a crash course in the lingo

NC suggestion that she was so bigoted that she couldn't work with DU - his not reporting is a neglect of his duty

LC I can't speak to why it didn't come to me
NC he didn't perform this duty
LC can't comment not involved
NC if false it's a damaging lie, so serious

I wouldn't take ANYTHING the other side say as given, least of all any attempts to smear her on the grounds of intolerance or 'outspokenness' in other areas (eg, smelly food). They're clearly making so much, if not all of it, up.

That was me!

@BeLemonNow Whatever dispute exists exists about who was where in the changing room Upton is an over 6 foot tall man, an ex hockey (not rugby but still) player in a room with a woman who is 5 foot 3 or less (reports differ) and many years older than him. Does anyone in their right mind think he couldnt shoulder her aside?

I know we need that laugh emoji 😂 🤣

Where do you go to buy size 13 ballet flats??

“Someone without the PC of gender reassignment cannot claim discrimination on the grounds of not having GR.”

I see this widely repeated but I cannot find an authoritative source (like case law) nor does it match the plain meaning of the words of the EA2010.

I see that it’s not a PC not to be GR, but you can’t lawfully discriminate in favour of someone with a PC, which is the same as discriminating against someone who lacks that PC.

In fact it is expressly allowed to discriminate against someone for not being disabled, which makes my point rather strongly for the other PC’s.

Apparently not, due to a remarkably misogynistic double standard by the grantors of GRCs; as others have pointed out.

Reposting for traffic.

I feel there must be an element of classism at work here too. The fine, noble and broad-minded Russell Group educated doctors being harangued and victimised by an upstart working-class goblin nurse who (probably) went to a polytechnic and doesn't instantly doff her cap and bend the knee when in the presence of her betters.

No doubt she speaks with a REGIONAL accent too, God save us.

The mad thing about this whole gender critical views / gender ideology views argument is that even if you weren't at all gender critical and you 100% believed in gender ideology, like these witnesses in court seem to, most women including these witnesses would still be 100% horrified at actually having to get changed and clean up a period flood in front of a bloke. Even a bloke with long hair, pronouns and a female gender identity.

Is every woman who doesn't want to clean up her period in front of someone who she knows is male "gender critical"?

NC's questioning is detailed - has established that it was decided too early that SP's actions were unacceptable -
NC - do you agree therefore that it was inappropriate that KS said that DU had the support of the senior dr and nursing teams
LC {agrees

Cannot comment on alleged patient safety issue because it wasn’t brought to her. But she was happy to infer in a tribunal that Sandie is a nasty racist because of ‘talk’?

Comparing this lassie to mince would be an insult to mince.

I wonder if any of these witnesses will have the ability to self reflect after this experience or will this just give them something else to blame on Sandie?

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So detailed that my attention is wandering and I think it's save to go and make a cuppa..
We've been spoilt with pyrotechnics😏