NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

No one knows what their chromosomes are

Then many more people should be in A&E when they get their first period.

The crazy was in full flow in universities by 2016, i remember a young female relative started uni in 2016 and I was shocked by their sudden transformation into full blown transmaiden. All of her and her friend’s ‘feminism’ was focussed on TW and how they needed to protect them. Their social media feed was part of my wakening to how bonkers this all was it was so extreme. No idea how long before that it was happening it’s just when my relative started uni.

I often wonder - and have never yet heard an explanation (not a GOOD explanation, mind, rather ANY explanation) for how a trans handmaiden knows that their pet cat or dog is female or male.

Answers on a rainbow embossed postcard please.

We heard the chair of WESC make exactly this argument when attacking Kishwer Falkner quite recently.

What we're seeing here are the grounds on which the genderists are hoping to overturn the Supreme Court judgment.

Crumbs I left this morning on the last thread page 26. Clearly I have some catching up to do.

But in other news. This lunchtime, in an Ole &Steen on a cobbled Surrey high street I overheard on the next table. He doesn’t want to hear any more about DEI or Pride as it costs money and actually puts customers off. No more money is to be spent on anything Pride related as some designers said to him that it is now homophobic. I am sorry but it means he has cancelled the DEI role. We have to concentrate on recruitment, retention and project related staff training as that is what brings the money in.

It was music to my sole though the group of four, probably 20s/30s, looked a little down.

I will now read through the thread.

From TT

NC Using your terminology.
IB By allowing t ppl into a w space would potentially be ppl am ab allowed into that space.
NC By bio sex I mean sex assigned at birth
IB Not 100% aligned [discussion re witness has answered]
NC DU needed somewhere to change.
IB y
NC TW can be harassed in male spaces...
IB I gave advice cos that's what the statutory code said and other boards policies
NC Is that the basis
IB It's my job to follow available guidance.
NC Was your guidance about securing DU dignity, privacy and safety
IB An aspect of it, y
NC Any other reasons to let him use the cr
IB Inclusion in workplace. Art 8.
NC Anything more concrete?
IB Not sure why what I said wasn't concrete.
NC Would providing him with a private space to change would have provided him with dignity etc
IB Asking him to to do wouldn't uphold his dignity
NC But other women were asked to do that
IB Not by me
NC What would be those women's option
IB That would be their management. I would support if they came to me, but not my place to say where they should change

Reading TT on phone - can't paste. Did she actually just say "Asking him to do wouldn't uphold his dignity"?

Well good luck to them if that is all they have.

Woah, why are we talking about "him" now??

Before the Supreme Court Ruling (and leaving aside the HSE Regs about single sex provision) wasn't the Scottish Govts stance (and established law) that a bloke would have needed a GRC (which Upton didn't have) to be treated as a 'woman"?

I don't think JR could have been listening to any of the Scottish Govts arguments in the FWS case.

Summing up is going to be glorious

Him. LOL.

😂😂

‘No one knows what their chromosomes are’ 🤡🤡🤡

Omg she has to stop misgendering him before she gets herself suspended!

This is a GC struggle session. NC is trying to get IB to engage with reality and they're both really struggling.

I see Isla has just given up pretending Beth is a woman. It's too hard when you are trying to tell the truth.

NC But other women were asked to do that
IB Not by me
NC What would be those women's option
IB That would be their management. I would support if they came to me, but not my place to say where they should change

What's the opposite of "I'm Spartacus"? Where everyone just starts pointing at everyone else and yelling "He's Spartacus!"

Indeed they did - both the English and Welsh versions, and all the draft versions, and all the meeting notes that led to the drafting. They are still at it down here - really not keen to let women have any rights.

Love it!

Not that clever though, or I'd be able to count the syllables in my head 😄

Fife is a lovely place, btw. Notwithstanding the like of IB, BU and their captured employer. The accent can be a bit impenetrable.

I recommend the sleepy, picturesque coastal village of Elie for anyone seeking a short beach break. Burntisland also quite nice. Can't guarantee the weather, mind. But that's Scotland. ☀️🌧️☔️🌨️⛈️

Sandy was separately accused by Dr U on 4 matters. The internal disciplinary investigation concluded 'not upheld'. Sandy is accusing NHS Fife and Dr U of sexual harassment, direct discrimination. That's the subject of the tribunal.
The media does not do a good job explaining this stuff. And they have made it seem like Sandy was on trial.

I'd be far too scared I might fall ill and have to go to hospital.

That's a line I've seen a few spinning on Twitter since the judgment. "We accept that it's happened, but not that it has any wider implication than boards in Scotland." 🙄🙄

Avoid Ninewells if you're preggo.

Dr B Upton's name is Beth. If we're naming the other parties, let's also use her first name, please.