NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

I was skipping between here, TT on nitter and the Herald live reporting page but the Herald has suddenly gone subscriber only 🙁

From TT

Tribunal Tweets
@tribunaltweets
·
3m
IB no
NC Any steps taken to find out
IB no
NC Any woman with no particular beliefs re G I and is frightened to see a man walk in
JR We've had this q a number of times. Depends on passing - you wouldn't know.
NC Haven't had that q
IB WOuldn't think it accurate generalisation to say women would see a man walk in.
NC Your inclusion depends on women seeing tw as women and acting accordingly
IB Don't need to have that view, Some ppl will lean more towards diversity aspects. Some w may not think twaw but might not mind them in the space NC Not very inclusive of various categories of women.
IB No. But can't generalise about all the women in those groups.
NC What about the third aim. If necessary to protect R2 rights or for diversity and inclusion in workplace, is appropriate use of facilities

IB calling it a minority view is also statistically incorrect as year on year the surveys have increasing been les tolerant of TW in women's spaces.

Why would the legality of allowing TW into female changing areas depend on how many religious women who would take offence are employed?

Suppose there were none, and a policy allowing DU to use the female facilities was formally implemented. Than a cohort of religiously observant women is employed - does the policy get reconsidered and cancelled? And DU goes back to the men's?

That makes no sense.

That's the sound of gravedigging you hear.

But i’m a buffoon.
Oh! Wait’s dead clever, ain’t she?
Her book would be grand.

So she's admitting there's no impact assessment. She has no record of any EA criteria that could be directly impacted. She thinks women with religious beliefs who can't share with male people are the minority (over the 1-5, but probably 2 trans people).

She doesn't seem to be aware of anything - which leads to a direct question of how in the world she was recruited?

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this but I'm actually shouting at the telly now. Complete disregard for how many women actually feel and the suggestion that women who don't believe TWAW are a minority.
The same bullshit lines we see so often spouted by ploppers here.

I think there's a whole generation that need some sort of de- programming

JR - what are you talking about? The Supreme Court confirmed the exiting law.

Thanks @BezMills ! Much appreciated!

OMFG

Yes same. Seems a weird decision for the Herald to have made - they will have been getting a lot of clicks. I hope the paywall was turned on accidentally - will have to wait and see.

The news item was about the internal disciplinary action against Sandie Peggie which cleared her of gross misconduct allegations. That result was made public late yesterday. Today is the continuation of the employment tribunal first started in February.

Indeed.
This is a £50k+ role!

In any kind of management role you should have good general knowledge of issues which may affect your line of work. This includes an awareness of the news etc. I've literally been on management courses telling me this.

Forstater is an area which has been massively publicised. And she doesn't seem to know if it's existence never mind it's relevance.

She doesn't know about Stonewall.

She doesn't know about the Equality Act.

This woman is so far out of her depth it HURTS.

I was struggling to get the Herald page to load at times, so they might have too many people reading it for the site to cope with

IB saying the SC ruling changed things from back in 2023..

IB ‘knowing’ this bullshit is what landed her the £50k job in the first place.

OMFG OMFG OMFG

Everything is about the T

OMG - if I had to guess I am female? WTF

From TT

IB [not able to comment]
NC Will address tribunal re this.
NC Letting DU use f cr. That rule/practice has effect that no f users of cr has a genuinely ss space for changing.
IB It's not that black and white. Viewing of that changed over time. Lots of ppl in 2023 would have said a t person doesn't make it not ss. Different now supreme court have rules.
JR Need to intervene. We will make obs re FWScotland - it's an abstract case re representation on public boards in Scotland. Not c toilets, etc.
NC Leaving FWS aside. On basis of biological understanding of sex, no w has sss cr
IB Depending on your understanding of biological sex
NC if your understanding is women are f ppl and tw are not - bodies not ids - and DU with his male body is allowed to use that cr, on bio understanding no w had sss cr

(my bold - "lots of people" don't have the high paid job to do this exact thing and know their law and their onions)

Isla is just sounding more and more clueless as the day progresses

Would you like to borrow my nice soft cushion specifically sourced for just these occasions when the only options are to bang your head against something or use it to smother yourself?

ICKKY - I NEED HELP! ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGG