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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

1000 replies

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:26

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 11:28

So, did Isla just crib her stuff from other NHS trusts?

chilling19 · 16/07/2025 11:28

SidewaysOtter · 16/07/2025 11:23

Bundle issues, you say?

Snap 😄

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 11:28

Longlivethebling · 16/07/2025 11:25

I am not watching, just reading Tribunal Tweets and already thinking Isla is going to get skewered by Naomi.

I'm hoping the skewering will result in IB's peaking in real time. That would be fun to watch!

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 11:29

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 11:28

So, did Isla just crib her stuff from other NHS trusts?

Standard practice

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2025 11:29

SidewaysOtter · 16/07/2025 11:27

I'm holding out for "reversing into a bin".

Show quote history

Or 'phone dropped in the sea'

Original poster

nauticant · 16/07/2025 11:29

anyolddinosaur · 16/07/2025 11:28

Nitter gets blocked by my virus checker. I rely the herald, you lot and the thread unroll TT publish later.

Does that apply to all of the Nitter instances?

https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances

OP posts:

SternJoyousBee · 16/07/2025 11:30

Lots of being unsure about exactly what guidance she had read and used. I would have thought as soon as a discipline procedure was started which included the suspension of a nurse I would have bloomin’ we’ll double checked my facts and advice.

ETA: I’m not in the room just reading TT and the Herald

ickky · 16/07/2025 11:30

@SidewaysOtter

I believe that has a special prize if you stamp that one on the bingo card.

saveforthat · 16/07/2025 11:30

ickky · 16/07/2025 11:10

I have video but it is a small screen, why don't they make it full screen, it's not difficult.

Someone in our room asked in the chat for the screen to be enlarged and it was!

SternlyMatthews · 16/07/2025 11:30

Deadcog · 16/07/2025 11:21

The Herald mentions a Masters in progress in Health Management specialising in equalities(?).

Show quote history

IB - degrees (no legal qualifications or experience)
apols, pasting image not work for me

EternalLodga · 16/07/2025 11:30

New thread on Reddit

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1m17co0/trans_changing_room_row_nurse_cleared_of/

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 11:31

<a number of docs from other NHS trusts>
JR - are these the docs you used when giving your advice
IB - I definitely saw one, and I probably saw some of the others but I don't recall specifically
JR - go to Brighton docs, para 8, please read
JR - on use of single sex facilities.
<pause for reading>
JR - mentions GRC, and says they can use the toilets and facilities of acquired sex, did you use this for your advice
IB - I'm not sure that I used it for my advice, not sure when I saw it
JR - what about St Helen's doc
JR - please read and tell the ET if thats one of the things you had in mind.
IB - what was your question
JR - did you have this in mind
IB - not that particular para but that's what policies were saying at that time
JR - what about Lanarkshire one? that advice?

ickky · 16/07/2025 11:31

@saveforthat

I wouldn't dare, they have threatened to kick us out if we even look at the chat.

EternalLodga · 16/07/2025 11:32

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 11:31

What are they trying to ascertain here?

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 11:33

Basically Isla is going for everyone else was doing it so...

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 11:33

JR - describe for the ET, how your understanding fits with this advice IB - my understanding was that this was NHS boards were doing at this time, it was the general consensus
JR - Durham document; use of gender specific facilities, would you read and then explain if you

saveforthat · 16/07/2025 11:33

ickky · 16/07/2025 11:31

@saveforthat

I wouldn't dare, they have threatened to kick us out if we even look at the chat.

Maybe the person who requested it is not an observer.

PinkDD · 16/07/2025 11:34

i would assume they are trying to ascertain if Bumba asked for any legal clarification or was just following others in an attempt at "best practice"

to be fair, that seems to be what every organisation was doing pre-SC ruling (and a lot post-SC ruling too)

anyolddinosaur · 16/07/2025 11:34

Think JR may be going for the law was unclear so many people misunderstood it.

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2025 11:34

From TT -

JR - on use of single sex facilities.
<pause for reading>
JR - mentions GRC, and says they can use the toilets and facilities of acquired sex, did you use this for your advice

So as clarified by the SC judgement, NHS Fife have been breaking the law in terms of both the EQA2010 and the Workplace Regulations 1992 Act.

chilling19 · 16/07/2025 11:34

SternJoyousBee · 16/07/2025 11:30

ETA: I’m not in the room just reading TT and the Herald

Edited

You’d think. But back then, there was no need to check any facts was there? After all she must have arrived fully briefed from her uni. Now she is paying a price that she didn’t anticipate. As with PPs, I do have some sympathy when young people finally hit the grown up wall in the real world. But only some.

PeonyPatch · 16/07/2025 11:34

Def would not want to be IB today. 😬

alsoFanOfNaomi · 16/07/2025 11:35

@BettyBooper are you observing or relaying TT or something? If you're observing please don't report live, it isn't allowed.

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2025 11:35

from the Herald and I AM NOT AN OBSERVER
Ms Bumba said she came to this advice through her understanding of what other health boards were doing and on what their existing policies were, given that NHS Fife "didn't currently have a policy".
[more details on TT]

So she's employed to be the well-paid ' NHS Fife’s Equalities and Human Rights Lead Officer', and makes up a policy by cribbing other peoples'??

BettyBooper · 16/07/2025 11:35

considered it as part of the advice you gave ED?
IB - What was the question
JR - was this one of things that formed part of your research
IB - this is an English policy, I cant be certain I read this before giving advice, but it was consistent with what was being done at the time

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