NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

have just looked at Bluesky, a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth (one corker "My reasoned and respectful stance on this is that if Sandie's ever my nurse I'm going to shit in my hand and throw it at her" which is nice)

but also, to my astonishment, a fair few supportive posts. So the Bluehairs may all decamp from Bluesky now and it may stop being a Right On Echo Chamber.

Fife may be asking for an adjournment both on the basis I previously mentioned (JR unable now to represent both DU and Fife) and “this changes everything judge, we need time for settlement talks”. The timing looks suspiciously abusive. I hope if today is not going ahead Fife gets whacked with an order requiring them to pay big costs to SP.

Nothing being reported on it on the BBC news this morning.

It's not that unusual for the legal team to know that a case has to settle, to know this for weeks, or even longer, and to push for this, and for the top management to dither and only make up their minds to actually listen to what the legal team are saying at the very last moment possible.

To quote Martine McCutcheon from Love Actually: "It were the borin' ones wi' no chocolate"

No Tunnocks then?

It was reported on the Today programme on Radio 4 at 6.15 this morning.

Why do people like this always resort to pee and poo? Utterly revolting.

I said on one of the previous threads that I experienced an awkward call with Fife NHS gynae dept last yr, because my GP had requested a female gynae for me. (I did see a female for the first appointment and then an excellent male for the other two appointments.)

They had missed the request for a female when they scheduled the second appointment. They seemed more worried than they should have been...I didn't know about Upton's nonsense at that point - it hadn't hit the news.

As I said earlier I cant imagine the judge having much sympathy for Fife claiming they need a postponement due to their own actions of concluding the disciplinary process the evening before the tribunal starts.

Toddler behaviour

Yes. Exactly BB! I have now realised that I should just accept that many others have the same screen and it is not a tech failure on my part.

But, of course, we are now waiting to find out the situation.... all while trying to concentrate on work....

Good grief. You just know these people wouldn't dare in real life, the cowards. Given that SP works in ED, if they came across her they'd be crying tears of gratitude as she saved their pathetic life!

What is with them and piss and shit?

The deranged Molly/Sparkles declared at a rally (attended by Green MSP's) that he wants to 'shite on JKR' and of course, there's the piss protests.

The vaguely more reasonable among them should really be saying to them 'look lads, this is hardly winning hearts and minds. Knock it off'

Probably not. Costs are generally not awarded in ET cases, but they can be if one side has behaved badly. It is possible the repeated disclosure failures will lead to costs being awarded, but that is unlikely to cover SP's full legal costs.

Can I ask a question for anyone more knowledgeable than me?

Fife conceding that she was not guilty of misconduct would not change the way Sandie was mistreated and so surely the case would have to continue?

In person observers now being admitted

Tribunal Tweets 3 minutes ago:

Observers are now being admitted to the in person hearing room.

like the chimpanzees in Madagascar "if you have any poo, fling it now"

Online room 7 has just been letin, can now see visuals of the meeting room in Dundee

Sandie is the claimant so can choose whether to continue with the claim or not. Fife as the defendant can either choose to defend the claim or give up. In practice, its more likely that Fife will want to settle but whether Sandie accepts any offer to settle is completely up to her.

If ever there was a case where costs should be awarded - and extra damages - it's this one. I cant remember the words one judge used when awarding extra damages for poor behaviour but it can happen.

Even then the amount you can claim in costs rarely covers what solicitors actually charge. Without a generous supporter Sandie could never have got this far. Fife were relying on her not having support.

We have visuals and sound

If Fife offer to settle and Sandie refuses, wins but is then awarded less than Fife offered, is she liable for all costs?

aaaaannnnddd we're in

Ooh ooh ooh I can see the tribunal