NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

Honestly that sounds either horrendous or fun. Get them to sit there and talk you through all the things Dr U said in evidence about not being a robot. Take notes, keep going back and asking more questions.

"So if he's said he's biological, and says he's female, and says he's biological female. But he's still not allowed in the female changing room? Can you talk me through that again please? I'm only a nurse with 30 years experience and I'm sure there's something I can learn here."

It's like the naughty step but with bigglier words 🤔

I almost read that as Jack Russell, and can't help but laugh that it came from a rather posh Corgi 🤣

I do miss the laugh emoji 🤣 and I wish we had a WTF face too! 😮

"We can't administer the punishment beatings, because you didn't actually do anything wrong. And people are looking at us now. But we're going to punish you anyway, just because we can."

And who is going to be having that discussion? I think there's only one person in all this who does not need to reflect on her practice.

I know very little about how these things work. If Sandie wins, and say the anonymous backer has spent 200k on funding this, do they get all their money back ?

Good number of journalists there

Wings is in the cool conference room with all the press reporters https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1945411087957893335

I wonder if one of the reasons for the waiting is that clerks are asking remote observers to ID themselves as per the pre hearing direction.

jinks!

Because, both sides

Made me laugh - and I have to go out later for something I know is going to make me feel bad.

I'm guessing Judge Kemp is having a wee sit down with NC and JR right now. Oh to be a fly on that wall.

Yep we'll clear you of wrongdoing but...

We Demand You Think About What You Did Wrong!!!

When I was in nursing, it generally meant having a think about what you're doing wrong and how you can be better. Even if you've done nothing wrong and it's them that need to have a good hard think and do better.

Week I hope the display of names to anyone waiting doesn't lead to any repercussions for anyone. Aren't the courts aware of Doxxing?

I think no need to worry, same here and I’m sure they can’t have started yet. Sandie didn’t arrive until a couple of minutes to 10.

I'm in a waiting room and haven't been asked to ID myself. But I'm just an observer, it might mean journalists are getting IDd.

But courts operate in their own time anyway. The judge might be having a conference with the lawyers, for instance.

Well, she's cornered a niche market for herself if nothing else. Somebody's got to defend the indefensible!

Any footage of who else has arrived at court besides Sandie and her solicitor?

The only thing SP could have a wee think about is the need for her own contemporaneous notes and witness backup every time she has to deal with the likes of Dr U. Send a quick email confirming her understanding of the conversation as soon as possible, after every interaction.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4AEh4LGGotI

I’ve now managed Chrome on my iPad but still the grey screen.

I had a phone call on my landline at about 9:50. It came up as ‘private message’

A female voice asked, in a Scottish accent, ‘Is that (my name)?’ (I live a long way from Scotland)

My goodness, I thought, the court is checking credentials. Second thought was how do they have my number.

It was my local hospital wanting to change an appointment.

I wonder if the timing of the announcement is to get the can kicked down the road again, with a claim JR can no longer represent both DU and Fife so there will have to be another (long) adjournment.

Fife are trying to argue that one detriment was appropriate - to reduce their liability - and I doubt Sandie/NC will go for that. Fife probably trying to settle at the door of the court.

So while we’re waiting I’ll butt in with an irrelevance.
Am I the only one who pictures this Jane Russell every time Fife’s counsel is mentioned by name?