NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

I think it was in a case management note - link published on TT substack. They do allude to it subsequent notes but one of them sets out the reasoning behind the decisions about how many clerks/virtual rooms would be made available. I posted the links in the last thread but cant recall whewre, off hand.

It's here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26?page=22&reply=145401469

It’s a long way back now, but are we sure that IB is 2 grades above SP? I always assumed Sandie was a band 6, if not a 7.

Either way, although I have limited sympathy for Isla taking a salary she didn’t deserve, she shouldn’t be carrying the can for the actions of her seniors.

Thanks for the article link.

How is that all public statements on this case from Fife hospital always sound so snippy and passive aggressive? Whoever’s in charge of this comms team needs to change the tone of what they’re putting into the public record.

An anti EMF bracelet? That's Unbelievable

did you see what I did there?

Not sure if you mean an archive of the TT coverage - in which case there whole lot is posted on their substack after each session; or an archive recording of the actual court session - in which case there won't be one.

For those saying IB shouldn't be scapegoated and that her age is mitigation, I agree she shouldn't be scapegoated. Nobody should be, and there's plenty of blame to go around higher levels.

But 27 really isn't that young. And here's an idea of what would be expected of a nurse at the same grade: https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/band-7-nurse-role . Imagine if a nurse failed in those duties - making wrong diagnoses, teaching incorrect techniques and creating dangerous infection control policies, botching medical interventions, giving controlled drugs to the wrong patient, assigning the wrong team to complex patients, failing to keep up with medical developments and therefore harming rather than healing ... she wouldn't be let off for being only young and meaning well. Nor should someone in the back office.

😂

There’s a BBC article about the resumption of the Tribunal, commenting also on subsequent events.

27 might not be that young. But shes not exactly got years of knowledge and experience behind her.

She graduated in what 2020, spent 2 years tracking covid patients, so that takes you to 2022, stuff kicked off with Upton August 2023, she must only have been in the job a year.

The people who put someone so inexperienced in that role must be questioned on why, they gave such a senior role to a graduate, straight out of uni.

First mention of today's events on Radio 4. A decent summary but they need to stop referring transwomen like Upton as a "transgender female".

Thats hopelessly confusing.

Musing over the reporting ban and possibilities of sabotage - should we ask MNHQ to lock this thread during tribunal hours, and unlock after for discussion of the TT tweets earlier in the day?

Just to confirm for those of us eho dont have access: the best place to follow live is tribunal tweets? Wish there was a live transcript 🫩

Funny, that, isn’t it?

I am horribly behind, so mostly placemarking so I can catch up later, but also to share the annoying earworm I have courtesy of the repeated mentions of Isla Bumba over the last few days. Every time I see it I find myself singing "Isla-la-la-la-la Bumba" along to this

Hi all, checking in. For those of us hopelessly out of touch, what are the chances of getting to view proceedings today, or what's the best alternative if that's not possible?

Thanks.

And good luck Sandie!!

D day!

(Watching the Piper lead her in, had me in tears last time)

For Sandie:

With a Scottish Piper marching,
To lead her to the fray
We stand, we watch, regarding,
The shero of our day.

By Sandie I will stand today,
Though miles and life do part us.
So, lead on, Piper, if you may,
To fight for Truth, and thus...

We stand in awe of bravery,
Of women who say "NO!"
To men, to them, to knavery,
To stand 'gainst what is faux.

Sandie, stand tall, be proud and true,
We stand with you today, sending love to you.

Good luck Sandie, let's hope common sense and decency finally prevail.

Blatantly placemarking as I'm not going to be able to keep track in real time this week as bloody life has got in the way.

Good luck Sandie, go finish burying the idiots.

Disingenuous wankers 🙄
BBC are again using the soft-focus photo of Upton, rather than an image that shows what he actually looks like.

Ironically 'transgender female' and soft focus photos both strike me as a bit, well nebulous.

Good lucky Sandie, up and at 'em Naomi.

Good luck from Australia Sandie.

AI has written a poem.

Sandie Peggie, nurse of Fife’s grace,
Stands firm for women’s sacred space.
With courage bold, she holds her ground,
For biological truth, her voice is sound.
No men in women’s rooms, she cries,
Defying NHS Fife’s cruel disguise.
Their management’s harsh, their stance will fall,
In Sandie’s tribunal, they’ll lose it all.

Right

Here we go

<cracks knuckles>
<flexes neck>

Best luck to SP. Looking forward to seeing NC in action!

D day!

(Watching the Piper lead her in, had me in tears last time)

For Sandie:

With a Scottish Piper marching,
To lead her to the fray
We stand, we watch, regarding,
The shero of our day.

By Sandie I will stand today,
Though miles and life do part us.
So, lead on, Piper, if you may,
To fight for Truth, and thus...

We stand in awe of bravery,
Of women who say "NO!"
To men, to them, to knavery,
To stand 'gainst what is faux.

Sandie, stand tall, be proud and true,
We stand with you today, sending love to you.