NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

I am rather taken by some of the boswelltoday tweets:

x.com/boswelltoday/status/1945049369914359905

Does anyone else have the issue that when they join as “observer” they can’t proceed into the waiting room? The only way I can join is by joining with audio then switching off my camera and audio. I’m just wondering why it won’t let me in as an observer on my phone or my laptop.

@ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews

I suppose it depends on how many requests to view that they have received. If it doesn't arrive by tomorrow at 9.30am, then it looks like you won't get in to the tribunal.

@Signalbox

Are you using chrome browser? It seems to work best on there.

I have permission. It remains to be seen whether I actually get in - last time it worked about a third of the time.

I think that’s a polite way of saying Sandie won’t settle because we won’t admit Dr U is a man.

Judging by my X feed, they might be sending out invites room by room?

I need to do a few "in person" meetings that I can't shift so I'll thank you all in advance for any posts on here.

Presumably the LNER trains up from London will be rammed with journos this evening.

I agree. I think the direction is poorly worded but the intention is to prevent an observer assuming an unsanctioned Tribunal Tweets type role in reporting proceedings. Not in preventing comment.

But then it's difficult to know whether they would regard comment on not the words uttered but say the demeanor of a witness as potentially contravening the test of interfering with the administration of justice.

On balance I'm not going to put it to the test and will be sitting on my hands.

No I'm using Safari. Chrome makes my laptop overheat. Perhaps I will need to download it just for the week.

I wonder if the tra will be allocated Room 101?🤔

The actual Presidential Guidelines document uses the phrase "live, text-based communication" mostly instead of "tweet", likely because someone realised they didn't only want to restrict one platform. It's not very clear but I agree, better safe than sorry.

I'm someone who failed to join as Observer before, sadly I think even on Chrome.

It says not to use the link until tomorrow morning

I think it's best to have a number of browsers lined up. Because I'm on a laptop I can have Firefox, Chrome, Edge, etc all ready to use.

The "ludicrous" comment. Is this ludicrous that a nurse with 30 years has been suspended based on a man baby's crocodile tears, or something else?

The former, IIRC.

I think I've picked up enough from these discussions to suspect that NHS Fife have an ulterior motive in emphasising that the case is going on because SP wants to carry on.
I think it might be to present themselves as the reasonable ones, and SP as the unreasonable one who is insisting on prolonging the case, which might have a bearing on any costs awarded?

I know but previously when I attempted to join as an observer I couldn't. I am anticipating the same issue so trying to find a work around before tomorrow.

It is indeed. I've been splitting my time between feminist Twitter and Mumsnet for years, though it was FWR that truly radicalised me back at the time of the GRA reform consultation.

I've downloaded Chrome to my mobile so hopefully this will sort out the issue.

Flipping heck, nauticant, you sound .. dedicated!
A couple of months' worth of tinned food, water purification tablets, anti-EMF bracelet [they exist!]... you're all set.
If Chrome doesn't do the trick, give them a whiff of Firefox, that'll teach them!😃

Seriously - thank you nauticant, you are wonderful

Need at least three screens too, one for the tribunal, one for mumsnet and one for TT!

In case the info helps, I applied early morning on 2 July, and received joining instructions today 15 July at 2pm. I'm in Room 4.

To answer an earlier question, the link is permission for the named person only to view (no sharing screen with others) and we may be asked to identify ourselves on camera to the clerk on joining.

The rules are very clear and strict that only approved press/TT are allowed to transmit the content of the proceedings. As members of the public I think we will have to be extremely careful only to comment on things shared by Tribunal Tweets or in the press, to avoid breaching instructions and potentially finding ourselves in contempt of court.

I applied on the evening of 1st July and have heard nothing apart from the acknowledgement. 🙁

I was able to access the hearing on my iPad last time. However, I’ve twice recently had to take my iPad back to factory settings because of whatever virus I receive from MN, which brings up the spam message and also caused my iPad to get very hot and become very slow. I no longer have many apps etc on my iPad.

So, I wanted to test my equipment before tomorrow.

The email asks us not to do that using tomorrow’s link; the attached Judicial Direction pdf gives a link for further information, including how to self-test, but the link doesn’t work.

I’ve tried searching the gov.uk site it takes me to, but only found help (not directed at Observers) which tells me to practise using the link I’ve been sent, which doesn’t apply to us.

So, if I have Safari and Chrome, will that probably be enough? I see the word ‘meet’ in the link, so would it be a good idea to download Google Meet today, too?

With an excess of caution I’ll probably not post tomorrow until after 4pm, if at all.

Drat. Thanks ickky.