NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #4

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Controlled. Calm, at least outwardly. One word to every ten of Dr U's.

Exactly the kind of person you would want when you fall into A&E. Completely unlike the it's-all-about-meeee performance we had today.

If you read Tribunal Tweets on TwiX, or via their substack, you'll get an idea of how contained she was. And how she didn't fall into the JRussell traps.

Does anyone know how tall he is and how tall Sandie is? Can't help wondering if she's 5 foot 5 and he's 6"2 which makes the whole oh I'm so afraid seem even more ludicrous than it does already.

That's about accurate, she is quite petite. Dr Upton is an obvious, tall, male.

So did dr Upton change out of his scrubs in the cr or not?

yes during the xmas eve incident in the cr with only sp there who was making eye contact with Dr U. it was skated over compared to the detail the judge asked SP for so we got a lot more about Dr U's feelings than exactly what was said and where everyone was

In DrU's submission I thought he said he didn't get undressed, so I'm not sure how he changed out of his scrubs without undressing

Raspberry scrubs, please. It's important to describe the colour of lady clothes accurately, even when worn by men.

The problem is you can’t cross examine on witness statements, which would be unfair given the claimant witnesses all had to endure cross examination

It would and that would have to be a consideration when summing up and the panel judging but no one could force BU to testify tomorrow, could they?

@KnottyAuty thanks for explaining

Because he'd requested, and been turned down, anonymity.

He can't be forced to come back, but if he doesn't then the panel is allowed to make their own interpretation of that absence

Yes, exactly what I meant.

I think also because JR is claiming that SP naming him as a respondent is further harassment - and the social media stuff is evidence of harm caused by this harassment.

As I posted yesterday, @AnnaMagnani, what's this going to do to Upton's career prospects? If I saw that name on a long list, no way would it make a short list.

I actually feel much surer as a result of JRs line of questioning and DU's own testimony today that SP was the one being harassed.

Making notes on the very first occasion that someone leaves a room is unbelievably trigger happy.

No-one wanted to be in SP’s shoes. Stick your head in the sand, affirm and let someone else either deal with the entitled and inappropriate behaviour, or get suspended for objecting. Cowardice and throwing women under a bus. Same old, same old.

I can't believe what SP has been out through.

Her own dad's funeral last week and then her mum having to be questioned about her daughter's menstrual flooding this week.

Good to see her dad's fund at over £2k tho! Keep going vipers!

He may need to change his name again in the hope that people don't realise it's the same man

I think what's coming out strongly is how women are just expected to get on with it, we can't confront, we can't complain, we can't silently object.

Sexism and misogyny runs like a thread through all this.

Having read the thread (thanks inky)Du has the thinnest of evidence to back up that he was harassed at all.

Incident one and two were just his reading of why she was outside or inside the CR

Incident 3, from what i extrapolated from JR examination is that in his written statement to the court and to the IX, he claimed SP compared him to Isla Bryson, and sex offenders.

When JR asked him to recount incident 3 his statement in the court room was different, he was clear. She did not say anything other than it is a similar situation to women in prisons with men (re how she felt in his presence) in the CR.

He by his own admission translated that to meaning Isla Bryson.

So he exaggerated (at best) and this then became an outright lie.

Which was the flaw of the IX in not teasing this out.

So his claims about the third incident become suspect.

We now all know for sure he is a liar, and discredited as a witness.

Without NC lifting an eyebrow.

I too doubt we will see him tomorrow.

An NC can make of that what she will, via other witnesses

Women must pretend he's a woman but treat him like a man

we can't look at men.
we can't not look at men.
we can't be in changing rooms.
we can't leave changing rooms.
we can't make eye contact.
we can't avoid eye contact.

All we can do so as not to offen the trans identified men is shut up & put up.

All evidenced by DU's testimony this afternoon.

but no one could force BU to testify tomorrow, could they?

I believe that it's possible that such an order could be made but this is very rare and couldn't imagine it occurring in this case.

The level of sunlight streaming from this is insane. If the NHS wins this then it proves that women are 100% right - transactivism is a clear and present danger to the safety of all women and girls.
The NHS will punish any woman employee for objecting to having to undress in front of a man. Any man - no matter how dangerous or reprehensible who claims to be a woman - his demands to access women undressing must not be denied.
It also suggests that those running the NHS pose a real danger. Which we knew when some trusts wrote policies enabling male sex offenders to sleep on women's wards - but somehow they seemed to be outliers.
Sadly anti women attitudes seem to be in the DNA of this "sainted" institution.

He’ll be off sick tomorrow, the judge should have started tonight.