What rights do transpeople believe they do not have?

[sunshinesupermum]

Serious question, so I can go back and discuss with my DDs (aged 38 and 42) without a row. I support JKR and they call me a TERF!

They are demanding the right to be treated as if they were the opposite sex in all circumstances

Rather than lead with that, I'd ask them to explain why they've leapt to name calling as a first response? Ask them what JKR has said, specifically quoting her, that they object to or disagree with. Don't let them get away with generic waffle about what they think she has said or what other people claim she has said.

Some demand the right to redefine much of the language we use, including in health care, so that it becomes impossible for the female sex even to exist (to use 'exist' the way they use it). So a woman is someone who likes pink, wears makeup and dresses and skirts and high heels, likes being submissive in bed (and perhaps everywhere), has long hair.

A man, though, is not redefined at all.

The problem is that many of the 'rights' demanded are privileges.

Yes, I should have put the word rights in quotation marks, because of course it is not a valid right to be treated as the opposite sex.

More to the point, what rights do your DDs think trans people don’t have?

They want the right to be accepted as the opposite sex to which they were born which is impossible because you can't change your sex .

This ^^ because it will come down to womans spaces and women shutting up

I had an outraged "friend" kicking off at me calling me a terf and it degraded into me being called a cocksucker and other less pleasant names I lost my high ground telling her to go suck on a lady dick she said she was a lesbian I said lesbians have penises you transphobe

Not my finest hour

My point is sometimes it's best not to engage because the arguments are unhinged

TRAs activists want the right to impose on women’s spaces, for validation, for a start.

It’s absolute bullshit.

I have a relative who grew up somewhere where they didn’t have free access to education, housing, employment and free movement because of their religion. Now that’s discrimination.

India Willoughby's recent video argues that there, indeed, is a genocide of transgender people in the UK, based on the definitions India assigns the term 'genocide', such as trans people not allowed to be in public spaces.

Because nobody is excluding trans people from public spaces that comment appears nonsensical until we realise that what Willoughby actually is demanding is, indeed, that trans people should be allowed everywhere as the sex they identify into, which includes, for transwomen, women's elite sports, women's rape refuges, women's toilets and changing rooms, women's prisons, women's awards and prizes, gyno wards, breastfeeding groups etc.

Anything short of that is 'genocide'. Third spaces are not acceptable. Partial inclusion is not acceptable. And ultimately having a sex-based category for anything (except, of course sexism and misogyny which won't care) will become unacceptable.

Perhaps you could point them to an agreed international list of human rights, such as the UN articles (www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/files/2021/03/udhr.pdf) and ask them which ones are not currently available to trans identified people. And ask them which ones the JKR and "t*rfs" want to remove or prevent them from having.

Nailed it !!

Some of this 'trans rights' stuff comes from the US where, as I understand it, they don't necessarily have the same rights as others such as employment protection or protection from being evicted from their homes. Whereas we all do, under the Equality Act 2010.

Young people often conflate what happens here in the UK with what happens in the US, although we are very different nations.

One area in the UK seems to be healthcare, where they give the impression that whatever they want should be done instantly on the NHS. No. That's ridiculous.

I'd say ask your daughters what rights they think trans people lack.

Trans people, including children, are missing the right to undergo serious and irreversible medical procedures, and have access to cross sex hormones free and on demand.

🙄

They want the right to be accepted as the opposite sex to which they were born which is impossible because you can't change your sex

I had a conversation this week with a friend, she has a “trans” relative F to M who gets angry when anything trans related comes up, especially if they are mid gendered, they even got angry at a child for not calling them by their new name. As far as they are concerned they are 100% male and a man now, yet they don’t want to take hormones or physically transition because they want to have babies 🤔🙄🤯🤷‍♀️ It’s all just so ridiculous.

I really don’t care if a man wants to live as a woman, vice versa, take hormones or not, same with operations, what I hate is the constant anger and dismissal of actual woman's rights and children being pressured to question everything they know about themselves.

Women have been fighting for hundreds of years to be treat as equals and now it feels like we are finally making progress, only for more men and unfortunately some women to push us back decades in our rights.

The right to have access to vagina

Sit down and shut up, stupid women! Especially YOU, lesbians, who aren't turned on by my cock!

Just flip it and ask what rights they don't have and talk about conflicts of rights.

Your DC are adults. They should be able to have a reasonable conversation.

Unless they see women as less entitled to 'rights' than trans people they should get it.

According to the TRA I spoke to about this recently they just want the right to be seen and treated as the beautiful women they are. Which I guess means being allowed to use women's facilities.
No idea where transmen fit into being "seen as the beautiful women they are" though.

It seems the patriarchy TRAs don't care about transmen.

Shit. I’m not a beautiful woman. I’m going to hell! Currently wearing work uniform and boots, and not being noticed or validated by anyone. Shit, shit shit!!

If your children are claiming that transpeople don't have the same rights as everyone else, they should be able to tell you exactly what rights they lack. Ask them.

This is right on the money and should be hard to argue with…

That made me splutter my beer.

To live their lives without having their every move discussed and criticised on mumsnet and in the media