What rights do transpeople believe they do not have?

[sunshinesupermum]

Serious question, so I can go back and discuss with my DDs (aged 38 and 42) without a row. I support JKR and they call me a TERF!

If your children are claiming that transpeople don't have the same rights as everyone else, they should be able to tell you exactly what rights they lack. Ask them.

Will do.

I think you were right the first time 😉

India Willoughby's recent video argues that there, indeed, is a genocide of transgender people in the UK, based on the definitions India assigns the term 'genocide', such as trans people not allowed to be in public spaces.

Setting aside the issue that it's Windy speaking so it will be - at best - nonsense, do Windy and other TRAs actually know what genocide is? Because the UN defines it as follows:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I would refute the idea that this causes "serious...mental harm" and none of the other criteria are met either. So to use the term "genocide" as interchangeable with "You're stopping me doing something I want to do" is Kevin-and-Perry style childish at best and downright offensive to those who've lost their lives in real genocide at worst.

No-one is erasing you or killing you, Windy, you're just being told that you've got to live by the same societal and legal rules as everyone else.

Oh, and the other point I forgot to make is that trans people are neither a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.

"They want to stop me going in the women's changing rooms, it's literally genocide!"

This

And the right to attend any women's health services, like antenatal care, breastfeeding support etc

And the right to stop women calling themselves women

There are no rights which trans people do not have but other people do have.

None of the things they are demanding are actually rights.

JFC, that’s insane. Release all trans prisoners immediately?

Have you seen the definition of "trans genocide" on Wikipedia?

https://archive.is/O9dsj

Gives the game away right there, in black and white. "Trans genocide" is a myth perpetrated by grifters and narcissists. A good 50% of TG victims of murder are prostitutes, one of the most dangerous professions, and we should be protecting prostitutes. (Nordic Model Now!) But there is no 'genocide'.

https://archive.is/4BW1B

@Quidigiturinquam Fuck me, I have never read such a pile of self-indulgent self-victimising nonsense in my life. There really is no end to the claims of “most oppressed” is there? <sighs>

It’s a sexiest, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, anti safeguarding, anti science men’s sexual rights and specifically men’s rights of sexual access to women campaign.

Yes, much of it derives from the US where trans people don't have the same rights or protections regarding all manner of things and many in the UK have taken this narrative and used it here, even though it's not applicable.

What is common to both is that many trans people believe what they should given everything they demand, most particularly validation for TW by being allowed into biological women's spaces and sport.

Are you really saying that in the US I could rent a property and, the minute I mentioned I am trans or I an non-binary or whatever I would lose some rights that I had 5 minutes before? I find that hard to believe. It may be the case that in the US people have less employment and housing rights generally, as they do not have the Equality Act, but that's not specific to a gender identity, or even a sexual identity. Are there really still places in the US where people are ejected from jobs or properties becasue they are gay/black/trans? I highly doubt that. They may be sacked for being terrible employees - narcististic, demanding, inflexible, winding up other employees - but that's because of their personalites, not becasue thet are trans. I think many people confuse the two things.

The Equality Act protects people with a transgender identity from discrimination, as far as I know there is no equivalent protection in the US.

And undoubtedly yes, people are discriminated against, for all of the protected characteristics. You're not seriously saying that racism and homophobia don't exist?

Im saying even in the US people dont explicitly say I'm terminating your lease because you're gay/black/trans/single mother or whatever as thet would still be liable to claims for discrimination surely? I'm not saying it doesnt happen but it's not specific to trans people. They have no more or less chance of being discriminated that anyone else who isnt a white male.

Well, I don't know enough about the US legal system to say. Claims for discrimination using what legal mechanism?

And in the case of people like Lia Thomas, they have as much privilege as other white males.

MORE privilege than other white males.
Non trans white males have to compete against equals. They have to put serious effort in to stand any chance of winning. Training, diet, coaching, dedication, study, technique, experience, and even after giving everything only one can come first.
For MtF athletes competing in women's sports they literally have to get out of bed and turn up to win such is their advantage. That's way more privilege than males competing aginst males.
The privilege comes from males being able to use women to satisfy their own needs without any consideration for how the women feel about it.

A brief google suggests there are various anti-discrimination laws in the US, starting with civil rights acts, in the 1960s, and subsequently specific acts to do with housing and employment.

'protections for race, colour, religion, sex, or national origin in the areas of voting, education, employment, and public accommodations' (Civil Rights Act 64).

Legislation regarding sexuality, and/or 'gender identity' looks far more recent and varied/piecemeal - I am going to guess it varies by state. And looks complicated, to say the least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#North_America

I get the feeling that some of the rights and social conventions that we tend to take for granted here in the UK (despite some such as equal marriage rights being very recent!) may not apply equally in the US. And of course the political and cultural landscape is very different, so context, history and so on also differ.

Yes, anti-discrimination legislation can vary between different US states and cities; there’s no equivalent nationwide of the Equality Act for sexual orientation or gender reassignment (I used to live there).

True.

Thanks, yes it seems that would make for a rather different background and context.

[citation needed]
😆
indeed!

Yesterday JK Rowling shared an article to 14 million followers that "hospitals are not a safe space for women" because of transwomen being able to access women's wards.

A freedom of info request revealed that (as of Nov 2022) there have been zero complaints made by natal women of transwomen using women's wards.

https://translucent.org.uk/womens-single-sex-spaces-in-hospitals/

I'm aware of Elon's recent changes to Twitters terms of conditions re deadnaming and misgendering.

This has very quickly resulted in Twitter users making long lists of transwomen (encouraging others to add to it) and deliberately making a point of calling them men and revealing their deadname. How this is anything to do with "women's rights"? It's just outright bullying of transpeople who just want to live their lives.