Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 10

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)

To come?
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

If that's the biggest gotcha you have then you don't got much.

He said even if he had seen the replies he'd come into chambers because he was very busy with a big case and so wouldn't have read them.

@Everywhereatonceyou do know that TERF used in conjunction with threats of violence goes back to as early as 2014 if not earlier don't you?

Just as well the mic is off, I let out a very scathing and incredulous “w*er” at one point Does he seriously think this is believable?

cross post with everyone else who all type faster than me 😆

Let’s just be very clear that there is no material difference between “gender critical” and “terf”. For that matter, when you drill down into it, there is no material difference between “person who can see that there are two sexes even if they’ve never really thought about it” and “terf”.

But was it 1.38 in the morning?

These people have all read the same scripts- I was busy, I was travelling, I don't use Twitter (or I don't understand Twitter), I only talked to the clerks about cases and football, I was kind to Allison

Didn't DDM email refer to 'hundreds' - I might be misremembering, and of course not necessarily representative of reality.

It's the 'I was kind to Allison' that annoys me the most - if you admired and liked her so much did it never cross your mind that maybe she wasn't a raging bigot but someone with real concerns?

Also I’m beyond fuming at his insinuations that LGBA is lying about their purpose.

Well said ickky 👏

Indeed. And it's nonsense.

I think MW should read about the Battle of Cable street. Or better yet, get his pal David Renton to talk about how extremism can meet its match when ordinary people get together. I heard Renton's quite knowledgeable on Cable Street...

On reclaiming words, SW say that the Q word was reclaimed in the 80s, which is something I always thought was odd (the bold statement it's been reclaimed AND the specific timing). But now I've heard all this about "terf", I read that page of theirs in a different light.

That remark annoyed me. If a police service said, 'This criminal organisation is about to meet its match', that wouldn't imply that the police service is also a criminal organisation.

Does his Twitter go to a different school?

Indeed! It's beyond belief...

I may be mis-remembering but I don't think that chambers received any complaints until they were solicited by Gendered Intelligence. Michelle Brewer was a member of GI and did she try to get complaints to her own chambers?

😂

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 11:04

That's reclaiming a slur. You know, like "queer"?

Not quite the same. When Gender Criticals like Glinner "reclaim" the word TERF it is a little cheeky of him, because, though he is a "TERF" for the purposes of the TRA vs GC debate, he's not a radical feminist.

In contrast when (most) TRAMPs (Trans Right Activist Male Prioritizers) "reclaim" the word queer it is completely outrageous because they are not part of the LGB community.

He's called Pink News 'mainstream media' 😳🙄😬

MW explaining that because the complaint about AB got into Pink News it had to be taken seriously.

Pink News is not the mainstream media, it's not even a tributary Marc. It's a little puddle of stagnant newspiss

Pink News & the Indie? 🙄

I did that face too!