Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 10

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)

To come?
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

EJ telling off AH for interrupting amd taking up time. Says the witness is intelligent enough to follow the questions himself.

EJ wanting to move things along: We've got 3 witnesses to hear today. [I assume that includes MW.]

Disagree - "claiming" a slur is a way of coping with it and is very common - the way gay men adopted "queer", and black people, particularly in America use the "N" word of themselves - but for others to do it is disrespectful and insulting.

I find this witness infuriating.

So basically GCC were very quick to take the word of some dubious random on twitter shouting about transphobia but much less willing to discuss the issue with AB, a barrister in their own chambers

BC pointing out that the "hammering" that GCC took from twitter was accusationso of transphobia levelled at AB and LGBAlliance, and by inference GCC for being associated with AB. BC asking whether GCC ought to have considered whether the complaints had any merit.

myself- Another misgendering- the twitter profile in question gives they/them
that is, Mr H called this obviously AMAB person who has they/them pronouns and claims to be into dick and dom "she...." the implications...

If you close your eyes MW sounds like Piers Morgan

BC: if you wanted to manage the reputational issue for GCC shouldn't you have looked at whether there was any merit in the slur of transphobia and "anti-trans" in the tweets?

MW's is coming out with a decent answer, that they would need to wait on an investigation. That would work if GCC had put a hold on everything until the investigation was concluded.

How on earth were they meant to make an educated decision about whether AB’s tweets were transphobic and therefore represented a legitimate reputational risk, when MW didn’t even know what GC meant?

@Ameanstreakamilewide so, if you believe sex is real and immutable you are considered a TERF?
if you believe women need some same sex spaces in certain circumstances of vulnerability eg:communal changing facilities, hospital wards,rape centres ,refuges and prisons you are considered a TERF?

He’s struggling now because they worked on assumption.

Thank you Birdsweepsin that has been driving me mad!

Ooh. Is he the first person to admit to being a regular Twitter user?

Ooh, a 'regular twitter user' who actually admits it!

If you click on a tweet, all the replies are right underneath it!

Regular Twitter user who still doesn’t know how to use Twitter.

Just directed some anger into cleaning my filthy oven. It has come up a treat.

Yes! That is exactly it - thank you it was annoying me

MW is saying he's a regular twitter user but amazingly claims he has no knowledge of how he might be able to see the replies to a particular tweet. That is bizarre.

He is talking bollocks about how twitter works. Claims clicking a link show the original link and underneath show retweets. It doesn't, it shows the comments.

“I’m sure there must be some way...”

What version of twitter is he using?! My ipad browser and app, iphone app and chrome browser on windows all show replies if you click on a tweet.

Ooh, a 'regular twitter user' who actually admits it!
and then goes on that he doesn't know how to see the replies to a tweet.
Could you make this up?

Regular twitter user who doesn't know how to see replies to a tweet. He said they're in a "separate bubble" and he doesn't know how to see replies. WTF?! I hope the tribunal are twitter users and can see what rubbish this is.