Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

AB must be the most accommodating person imaginable, because if I had to share even one minute in the same office as that raving misogynist I would run out screaming and never return

Unfortunately these seem to be the men/women in power. One (of the many) things I have learned from this tribunal is the actual reality of how institutions have been captured. Basically it is by staffing them with non critical thinkers (putting this politely) who have accepted Stonewall's (and co) dogma without being challenged.

Oh no! I have to work Wednesday morning and over lunch!!! I am going to miss this witnesses vehemently delivered sermonising answers!

I am furious that this aggressive little man thinks he gets to tell my female children that they have to share toilets with male children at school. Girls are self-excluding from using the bathroom because they regard this as humiliating and find it uncomfortable, but because some old posh barrister thinks it’s fine, they should all STFU?

I think not, David.

She probably had no idea until all this. It's a scratch the surface thing. I'm quite certain DR would self describe as a feminist man.

yep

Jumped out that DR kept referring to being 'fond' of Alison, like a child or a pet. I can't imagine him using that phrase for a male room mate.

I know, and if I didn't sorrynotsorry keeps reminding us , that barristers are hired guns, but I find it hard to believe that BC doesn't get women's need for single sex spaces etc. He does seem particularly steely when putting these sorts of questions.

What does one do when asked to work for, say, Stonewall - work on some other legal point or obfuscate cleverly, rather than deny fact?

For women who've been sexually assaulted, one big driving force thereafter is that it shouldn't happen to anyone else. Concern about single sex spaces is not only about avoiding being re-traumatised but about keeping other women & girls safe.

In addition, going through something gives one insight into it, so one is able to see dangers other people may not spot. They're real dangers, real warning signs, & it's only other peoples' inexperience that leaves them blind to them.

Not enough twixes in the world 😩

Magnolia, what is that?

Agree 100%

It is a human right for children to be able to access education.

Girls can't access education with mixed sex / gender neutral toilets. This is well known in development circles.

No single sex toilets and girls will be excluded from education one way or another.

I have support Twixes, carrot cake and Magnums - help yourself.

Is the rage helped any by the thought he must surely be proving Alison's/our points? By the sounds of it anyway.

It's like the (previous thread?) condescending mansplaining comment "he's not on your side you know" totally missing the fact we are cheering BC for actually presenting "our side" so well? It is about sides, that's the whole fucking point of this, and BC is doing a sterling job of getting ours across.

(and so is the last witness by the sounds of it )

DR clearly doesn't see women or girls as human. Not the same as the more important humans, in any case.

I think I read on here or somewhere that a school switched to gender neutral toilets and all the pupils decided between themselves which would be the boys and the girls.

And yet, as I mentioned upthread, he took on SWP leadership over the Comrade Delta/Martin Smith crisis that involved allegations of rape (young woman at the heart of it). He handled that incident with appropriate respect and sensitivity.

livesrunning.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/to-my-comrades-of-any-party-or-none/

What a complex set of emotions and responses has been on display during today's hearings.

Yes, very creepy indeed. Again - not seeing women as fully human, but lesser.

‘I think I read on here or somewhere that a school switched to gender neutral toilets and all the pupils decided between themselves which would be the boys and the girls.’

The kids are alright!

Exactly - this case is full of women (inc transmen) who think women have no right or reason to need single sex spaces.

Once you buy into TWAW there is no place to go but to equate sex & gender. You cant believe TWAW & believe women have a need/right to SSS, unless those SSS include men who "identify" as women, whatever the fuck that means. We know that means you do NOT have SSS.

TWAW depends 100% on the elimination of sex based rights. But no one has the balls to come out and campaign for that.

And so we end up with men and women like we have seen today and this week, tying themselves in knots, speaking unsupportable rubbish.

We had better sort this out PDQ becasue now the gender zealots are progressing up the legal tree from QC's to becoming judges etc & judges can make law.

Listening to that was a seriously unpleasant experience. It’s disturbing to see someone with a mind so completely closed, even to a theoretical discussion of ideas.

Let's hope DR is not on the telephone before Wednesday to the court or his clients from his home where family can listen in. Or more importantly from his office where other barristers can apparently listen in.

Thank you, it does help the extreme rage and the teeth grinding.

We must remember the bigger picture and he certainly painted a Hieronymus Bosch for all to see.

Yes and you only have to look at Afghanistan to see it's not a given that women as a sex class are allowed any rights at all. Very worrying.

Again,thank you Allison. I am sure we all hope you are with people who love you. xxx