Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 7

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Is David de Menezes going to be a witness?

Surely he will be, he's central.

Best post of thread so far.

It's all a bit "a murder is announced" isn't it?

Now I come to think of it [spoiler Alert] wasn't there some confusion there about whether pip was male or female?

Taps nose.

I also am painting and listeing - but in my case it is just decorating my study. I work from 8 until 11 (I'm in Europe and an hour ahead), do my DIY whilst listening to tribunal, then work again in the evening.

Cool horse!

I think I heard BC say 3 hours.

David 'leads' in 'promoting the highly respected Garden Court brand'.

Yeah, about that ...

‘Funeral presumed to be unconnected to the murder.’

I wouldn’t be so sure.

@ifIwerenotanandroid complete tangent, but my eldest was saying they liked painting with inks (do you paint with ink?). Can you recommend a brand? Arrgh, nearly out of charge!

They estimated 6 hours, so probably about 12 hours, if the other GCC witness's testimonies are anything to go by.

It's a shame in a way we can't have a Zoom watch party for this, would be hilarious! ( although of course, this case is incredibly important, I think the humour is how we have learnt to deal with the craziness of these last few years ).

Starting early at 9.30 tomorrow too. Can't sit late as tribunal panel actually have personal lives (that presumably don't involve murders).

What does Allison need to show in order for something to be consudered a detriment? What I mean is there are 5 detriments. Does she need to show that those things were indeed detrimental to her (as well as showing that they were caused by the respondents as a result if her belief)?

Eg regarding the publication of the tweet saying she was being investigated, has the court already accepted that this counts as a detriment if proved, or does she have to come up with evidence of negative consequences to her as a result of the tweets?

"We are men of action..."

The Dread Pirate Westley is one of my all-time crushes. And Mel Smith introducing the Pit Of Despair always makes me laugh.

A propos that scene, how many years of her life do you think MS lost today thanks to her fits of outrage? It read like she was having a conniption.

Thanks, @ickky and @Ameanstreakamilewide .

I wonder if it would be helpful to have a list of witnesses so far and their roles and the ones we think are to come? Can anyone add to this and could you possibly but it in a post, @ickky, so it shows up green? (Not in your opening posts but any old one.)

Allison Bailey - claimant
Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
? Was there another stonewally person??
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC

To come - Judy Khan - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

Hope this is not superfluous - I have always been terrible with names.

@User237845, that is very helpful! I keep having to go back and look up the various witnesses as I was getting muddled.

They should have streamed it on Amazon so we could stage Watch Parties…

wrt to Tofu's remark on pg 15 about Salander, yes, I have that reminder all the time, that exact moment when the prosecutor has that realisations!

That was the moment I felt quite sorry for MS. I think it was genuine rage - she's been sewn up like a kipper and is only just realising it, but can't do anything about it because she has to keep to party line. Or at least that's my take on it.

There was LT and Knan, also, I seem to recall.

I think it'll be helpful to distinguish people who were Head of Chambers previously (i.e. during the 'investigation') and the Heads of Chambers now.

Ii don't know much about ETs, but my sense is that the case against GCCs is stronger than rhe case against stonewall.

Is that fair?

Oh yes I missed their x-exam I think. Can't even think what LT stands for. Could folk add or do you want me to? (Don't want to make work for others!)

And yes definitely helpful to differeniate between contemporary and current HoC - which I'm not sure of!

Eek no I remember LT, saw most of his but missed S knan. God my short term memory is crap.

Re Witnesses:

LT = Leslie Thomas QC, GCC
S-S Knan for Stonewall

I don't, sorry. I bought the Derwent Inktense blocks because they're a halfway house: you can draw with them, then brush water over bits of the drawing to get a painting, or use a wet brush on the block itself & paint with that. I'm only at the experimental stage.

Was there an Sss too, sood -smith?

There have been four witnesses for the claimant

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Surat-Shaan Knan