Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 6

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets
Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

I think groups 1, 2, 3 and 4 above are all Crony beliefs.

Group 5 are the ones who are being most heart-breakingly harmed by gender ideology. If everyone else drops their crony beliefs, then I hope group 5 will get much improved care which actually prioritises their well-being.

Yes my feeling about the witnesses in this case is that they are not getting the help and support they need (and in fact it is made worse) because most of the problems are seen as by a transphobic world

Seen as being made by a transphobic world. Sorry

Yes quite. Shame my post was deleted, my language wasn't moderate enough unfortunately.

What was your post @MsMarvellous? (Without the inflammatory word, obviously!)

I was posting about the kinds of women I see as involved in the gender identify crowd.

I wish they gave us the option to review and edit a post as it was long and I won't remember everything but it was essentially

1. Women who want to be nice - majority
2. Women with a vested interest - trans child and scared to lose them
3. Women after control - the sort who identify their toddler as trans etc
4. Women after power - who see it as an opportunity to further themselves
5. Women who are caught up directly - being told transition / being "queer" will improve how they feel

My language describing number 5 got me in hot water.

For the other supports for crony beliefs and why we end up supporting structures and ideologies in which we don't believe and may actually harm us: the following has a selection of extracts about preference falsification, thought reform etc. that feel relevant.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4382551-Live-not-by-lies-Solzhenitsyn-no-tambourines-involved?

Crony beliefs also support much of Fisher's outstanding essay, Exiting the Vampires' Castle.

Yes - and as the ‘be nice’ group start to realise that ‘being nice’ to one group directly harms another, the balance is being talked about more.

Oh and this video is a useful illustration, and feeds into the crony belief thing (I think!)

It seems we've literally paid a high price to end #NoDebate and start these conversations but it had to be done.

I'm still deeply worried about the pro-authoritarian methods used to shore up gender ideology and that they're being used alongside govt. measures such as restricting the right to protest and the Online Harms Bill. We're still edging closer to the surveillance and social capital restrictions that I distrust and are implemented in other societies that restrict freedoms.

We're paying out bits of money and we do it to ensure a better future for our daughters and granddaughters, and the women who affect to loathe us, actively report us to our employers, de-platform us and claim that they would send us to gulags if they could.

I'm not sure that video link worked - it's showing an error for me now.
It was the Asch conformity experiment, with Dr Philip Zimbardo, if anyone wants to look it up.

Yes. These are the ones who will quietly about face as the tide turns.

And we need them to do this. We need to polish the golden bridge and watch them slip quietly over without so much as a raised eyebrow in their direction.

Eyes on the prize as Helen Joyce often reminds us all, remember why we're doing this.

Is Michelle Brewer being called to give evidence. If not can the tribunal infer anything from this?

I think she is as AH was referring to her witness statement yesterday.

Her witnesses statement wouldn’t be given much weight if she doesn’t give live evidence.

Only just caught up. Thanks, and loving the rusks and fresh air comments.

Is it 10am today?

On the points about crony beliefs/ people quietly ditching them - in polling after the Irish abortion rights referendum, 75% of people said that they hadn't changed their minds on this topic during the last five years. In contrast with other polling which shows that a lot of people did change their position.

I think it's very common for people not to admit - even to themselves - when they've changed their mind about something. I think we'll see a lot of people talking about how they always had concerns...

It's very disappointing to see such lettuce exclusionary attitudes on this board. It is under the green veg umbrella after all. #bekind

Yes live now.

I have some lovely lettuce in my garden. You're jealous! 😉

Am in

BC is saying that he and AH both think they can get through all of the evidence in the available time, which I think is to 27 May.

Menon now going to give evidence about billing. This will be important.

F