Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 3

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The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Question to the people watching, was Ben Cooper disrupting AH or IO whilst they were doing their questioning as much as they have done to him today?

No. He's barely interrupted at all.

It did look like a presentation of rogue to me. A junior employee, only weeks in post, saying that he was cheerfully sending off hostage to fortune emails to significant outside entities without discussing this with anyone at Stonewall.

't did look like a presentation of rogue to me. A junior employee, only weeks in post, saying that he was cheerfully sending off hostage to fortune emails to significant outside entities without discussing this with anyone at Stonewall.'

This is true, but there's no suggestion (yet) that they take any sort of different position as an organisation. He's still employed there in a prominent role despite suggesting women who disagree with him are violent terrorists. If they disagree, why hasn't he been let go because of the horrible damage he is inflicting on their reputation with his false representation of their views?

Well, they can get to fuck with that tactic.

He wasn't brought in as a junior, executive, adminstrator or coordinator level.

He was head of Trans Inclusion, and given that SW is now a one-track trans inclusion lobby group, he wasn't nobody.

I'm not sure why we're suddenly feeling sorry for him because he's been 'programmed'. He's an adult male in the workplace.

Maybe the support dog did the trick after all.

And, if I understood it correctly, state how outrageous and scurrilous it was that KM stated that the angry (and threatening) tweets were simply a reaction to a tweet by someone (i.e.AB) who wanted to harm transpeople.

'They have encouraged the mutilation and sterilisation of hundreds, possibly thousands of confused, autistic and mentally unwell young people. J'accuse, and I'm not going to stop accusing.'

We can enjoy a bit of gallows humour on here, but it's really not funny.

Thank you, Jules.

I'm only reading the tweets, but it's really irritating seeing them butt in for silly reasons (like BC asking a question and IO interrupting to tell him to just ask one question. He had only asked one question )

Are they trying to break his stride, throw him off a bit?

Just pinning this here.

👏 👏👏

Oh dear!

And people reclaiming slurs is an issue because?

Didn't you know? One person being ironic in a twitter handle means www.terfisaslur.com doesn't exist.

That's an anonymous Twitter account taking the piss out of a word that has been weaponised against people telling the truth. AB is a professional woman trying to progress her career, and in her case the term 'terf' is both abusive in the manner in which it was used, and very damaging (as we have seen).

💪

I wasn't even trying to be funny. What was funny about what I wrote?

All they have to do is show all the instances where terf is used in a respectful way - polite and courteous.

should be easy.

Well said Pluvia

👆👆👆
Yes, this, all of this. It is an utter, utter scandal.

I was watching a chat between Blaire White & Buck Angel on YouTube the other day (both of them disagree with transitioning children) & they were saying something about how they couldn't understand how much influence transpeople have for such a small group & suggesting there might be some puppet master style conspiracy behind it.

I thought it sounded a bit tin foil hat at the time, but having read that I'm starting to wonder if they were right.

How can people who like to declare they have human rights have any influence outside their own Reddit group?

New thread here

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

'I wasn't even trying to be funny. What was funny about what I wrote?'

I don't mean you. I mean we might make jokes on here but your post illustrates the gravity of what they have done.

Looking broadly at the world I think this is the result of two parallel phenomena.

One, the secularisation of society. And the resultant vacuum that subsequently gets filled by pseudo-religions, mostly benign ones like mindfulness or hygge, or more 'woke' pursuits like XR and BLM

And two, not just the ubiquity and availability of hardcore pornography but it's delivery via the same channels we all use every day for our careers, family lives and friendships. When porn was under your dad's bed or on the top shelf, you knew it was illicit. Now it's just another entertainment option for many young people; and so it has lost its thrill and also its stigma for many, cf. Neil Parish as the most recent example.

How the 'adults' were hoodwinked by this new Church of the Poison Pornographers is more of a mystery. But they absolutely were.

'All they have to do is show all the instances where terf is used in a respectful way - polite and courteous.'

Yes. Show us the respectful, centrist discussions in which someone invites someone else to call them a 'terf', then everyone accepts that there are different perspectives on sex and gender identity. We can wait.