Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 3

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

I think she wanted him to say no to that. My brain is trying to catch up to why.

I imagine IO will want to revisit some stuff with KM

Ovi does that make a difference do you think?

Funny how it's ok for her to interrupt him whereas she objected when she though BC was doing it.

For the header of thread 4, can these links be included too:

Witness Statement of Allison Bailey: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Kirrin Medcalf's complaint to GCC: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/PH-Bundle-pp-331-2-Stonewall-Complaint.pdf

Indeed.

Well he is, but they are his views as well. He's an extremist (obviously he doesn't know this).

This feels like last gasp clutching at straws. AB says something I don't agree with and that's a 'dog whistle' that 'incites hatred'. Given that GC feminists do not issue death threats to trans activists, harass them out of their jobs, attack their income or besiege their meetings with baying mobs, then all I can say is that AB must be particularly unsuccessful in inciting hatred.

Yeah. Tbh I was thinking even more basic - if your language has the concept of masculine or feminine inanimate objects, does that somehow influence your/your society’s concept of masculine or feminine bodies? Compared to native English where all inanimate objects are gender neutral “it” - which I would view as deeply insulting if used in reference to a human being.

I put them in.

I am looking forward to what Janice Turner and James Kirkup will write. Trouble is that it is all so unreal that it might be hard to convince ordinary readers that an influential SW employee testified to holding such radical views.

I feel sorry for him because he's been brainwashed but that's about it.

'Stonewall doesn't accuse people of transphobia'.

KM: No accusation of transphobia harms anyone because society doesn't take it seriously. An accusation of transphobia is meaningless in terms of impact on an individual.

Is he saying that stonewall accusing someone of transphobia is meaningless?

EJ question about when he says his complaint was about the safety of SW staff on GCC. She says there's a mention of safety at the very end of the complaint, but (she heavily implies) there is nothing in his complaint about that.

This is jaw dropping stuff. This ideology has parted all contact with reality. Wonderful to see BC taking it all apart so forensically.

Is he saying that stonewall accusing someone of transphobia is meaningless?

Righto, so does that mean no one needs to do anything about it?

Do he didn't do a risk assessment

Yes katmarie, in KM world if Stonewall accused an individual of transphobia there would be absolutely zero real world impact for that person.

If you were a politician who has been supporting Stonewall you'd be running to the shredder, wouldn't you?

JG asking why, if safety was the reason for his complaint about AB to GCC, he only mentions it at the end of a quite a long letter.

KM saying if he was writing it now it would be different.

JG I'm just thinking that when people are assessing risk they assess the risk and then suggest ideas for alleviating the threat.

KM We would only send a risk assessment separately and with regard to a specific situation, followed by a torrent of largely irrelevant me, me, me babble.

It's all over. I wonder how he thinks he's done. Best wishes to his mum.

I wonder what GCC are thinking now seeing all this being aired.

They threw the brilliant Allison Bailey under the bus in preference for keeping this lot happy?

It is brainwashing. How can anyone say that a transperson was not born as the sex they are?

It's all over. I wonder how he thinks he's done

I imagine he's quite pleased with himself, because he doesn't seem to have much self awareness or understanding of what most impartial people think about these issues.