Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 3

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.
You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.

On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Ah, okay. I usually have to work quite hard at being funny...

I'm here in power with my support cat. Having a fantastic time.

I too had to laugh that SW thinks of itself as a centrist organisation. And that it understands why extremists send abuse, but that it doesn't add to it. No.... they don't add to it at all.

And again, they don't urge extremists to stop the abuse either.

What a sick joke to hear that.

Bloody hell.

My opinion of Stonewall had obviously sadly diminished over recent years but my god the founders who see through this ideology must be mortified

Your post really moved me pluvia, it never hurts to have a reminder why we're fighting.

Saying the quiet part out loud there, eh Stonewall? Careful, your misogyny is showing....

Honestly, the lives that have been ruined and the time and money wasted on this nonsense beggars belief. Looking forward to the judgement.

But hang on here.

Someone from Stonewall told the world under oath that they completely understood that risk assessments looked at ALL the possibilities.

ALL the possibilities.

So, Stonewall no longer has anything credible to say in regards to female's needs for safeguarding in single sex spaces. Because their Head of Trans Inclusion has showed that SW knows what the process involves.

Sunlight for all.

Not sure how they are going to cover that bit back up again. I mean really.... the organisation has stated they are not denying biological reality (I think KM missed that memo, but hey ho) so they KNOW that transitioned males are males (despite KM's interpretation of that). Therefore, the male crime statistics and the transitioned male crime statistics that support the need for female single sex spaces, including toilets, can no longer be denied by SW.

Brilliant stuff today!

Today has just been jaw dropping. Thar an organisation which wields such power is led by such incompetent children.

And your post @Pluvia really resonated with me too I would like to give you a hug. Or clink glasses.

It feels such a long time ago to me that the word stonewall meant anything good. And that is an absolute tragedy.

Well former founders and sane people formerly of Stonewall are now supporting LGB Alliance. As am I and thousands of us cheering Allison on.

We've been talking here, over gin, about KM's fear of being challenged. Neither of us, lesbians in our early 60s, has ever thought we'd be scared to encounter and possibly question someone like KM if we encountered him in women's loos. We have actually done it at a campsite, where a long-haired man was hanging round the women's showers, without thinking much about it.

We're both now questioning whether we'd do it again after seeing his evidence. He is clearly so scared and defensive and revved up about the possibility of being confronted that we wouldn't want to challenge him. It's given us a long pause for thought. I know we always say it isn't about loos, but it's clearly something that's big on their minds. And it's interesting that he's a he/they, but would still want to use the women's loo, isn't it?

And if Stonewall's labelling others as transphobic has no meaning .... what exactly does Stonewall do again? If the supposed lead charity for LGBT in the UK's labelling of you as transphobic will have no impact at all, what are they for? Why did organisations pay them so much money?

Seriously bizarre.

And then KM basically said that 'cancelling' was a money making exercise really. No one gets harmed by 'cancelling' either.

I would say what I thought of KM's ability to disseminate information to come up with a consistent and coherent point of view.... but I would be deleted.

He is clearly so scared and defensive and revved up

Yes, this person made the leap that AB or another woman in this frame of mind would commit abuse, didn't they?

Yet another bit of sunlight. Projection, projection.

The implication was that they might commit a "horrible crime" as he said he had come across many cases of violence where someone who looked innocuous had done so and therefore chose to rely on the "risk assessments".

But that's not allowed for women, apparently,

I think KM's victim mentality is genuine. I don't think he's doing it for effect.

Don't forget that his generation have been consistently fed exaggerated suicide statistics and mark trans day of remembrance as if the statistics on murder are not from violent societies where most trans identifying people are sexual workers. They are constantly told that they will die, either by suicide or by murder. Is it any wonder that they are paranoid and afraid?

*typing too quickly. I meant most trans victims of murder are sex workers.

Didn't he also say something about the terrible incidence of violent crime against transpeople in the workplace?

I’ve been frantically catching up in between work and haven’t been able to keep my jaw off the floor all afternoon. It really is…..just incredible. I don’t even have the words. Support dogs? Mothers in attendance? Bodies aren't inherently male or female, they’re just bodies??

How in hell's name have we got here?

Men risk assess
Women commit transpobia

Keep up

Blimey the thread is nearly full after 2 days.

It's been a particularly "dense" day of evidence.

Spindle

That sounds like it might be another one of those irregular verbs?

I risk assess
You should examine your prejudices
She is transphobic

Something else that comes to mind:
KM: they are trying to set things up that women are protected bc of their reproductive abilities

Did KM actually say women here? As in the adult human female type? The ones with uteruses who menstruate?

I'm agog.

I don't use that word often. It's on the same shelf in my mind as 'quince' and 'jejune', but once in a while it's worth taking down and dusting off.

Stonewall staff member agrees with you