Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

Another instance of double standards: m.france24.com/en/20141217-real-unilateralists-please-stand-up-haaretz-palestinians-israelis-un
I feel uncomfortable celebrating while so many thousands are languishing homeless as a result of the summer bombing and complete failure to permit reconstruction.
But the tide continues to rise: Luxemburg has also now voted in favour of recognising a Palestinian state.

Coachbella if you want to be taken seriously I'd suggest a source other than Fox News btw.

I haven't seen the Fox News article about a Palestinian child, but a more reputable news organisation reports on Palestinian children. Many of our pro-Israel posters were not here when these reports were discussed.

In all fairness, we should consider Nutty's opinion

Good progress today in Europe for the Palestinian cause.

Will link to articles a bit later.

Free Palestine!

• Please do post the links yruapita

• halfdrunkmulledwine - do I believe everything I read on the internet ? Why are some on this forum so patronising ? I have already been told to 'understand' what 'from the river to the sea' 'actually' means because I have been on marches where we have been 'ignorantly' chanting this - do you think patronising people is going to cause anyone to pay any attention to any of the (other patronising) statements that follow .. ?

Because there are hasbara bots, who work day and night to disseminate fabrications about israeli 'rights' and 'democracy', we need to pay attention to lots of sources (plus the internet sources I posted did state other sources in them).

Here is another source, or in your world 'source'. It states that the zionist leader Yitzhak Greenbaum, after the war, stated:

When they asked me, couldn't you give money out of the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said, 'NO!' and I say again 'NO!' . . . one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance. 

(ie activities = the building of israel)

A bit pathetic to suggest the palestinians were somehow to blame for what happened to jews (and hence need to vacate their country?!) when these accounts point to jewish leadership not caring for their own people who were in concentration camps.....

www.fantompowa.net/Flame/weissmandel_lublin.htm

perhaps you are BDS bots? you do seem to be able to respond day or night and have managed to keep this frankly disgusting anti Israel diatribe going for near on 7 threads.

seems anyone who disagrees with you is paid to do so. how arrogant can you get?

Not anti-Israel.

Anti-carpet bombing of civilians, children, schools, hospitals, houses, universities, UN Shelters, infrastructure of occupied territories.

Yes anti Israel. The lies you tell over and over again; so many times you believe them, are no longer worth responding to.

Are you saying Israel did not bomb Gazan civilians, schools, houses and so in the summer?

sabrina i am tired of answering the same lies over and over again.

go look through the last seven threads of israel hate to find the answer - if you can be bothered to wade through the disgusting BDS lies.

its all there. The proof is all there.

I'm tired now.

It's documented fact that Israel bombed the Gaza Strip last summer though. Targeting civilians, schools, hospitals, UN Shelters, telecommunications centre, university, the power station. The UN and Amnesty state that war crimes were committed. They have guided missiles - they know what they're hitting.

It's not what Israel is that people (here) object to, it's what Israel does - hundreds/thousands of people dead. Men, women, children.

There is no justification for these actions.

Kareninsgirl - I respond at night if I have been working during the day/ been at a work event in the evening. We can't be bds bots because we are not here advocating bds... and we're actual people not hasbarists paid by israel to counter stuff with flimsy statements

Also none of the pro palestinian posters on here are stating lies. That is probably why the threads/ discussions have carried on for so long. There is a lot of research to back fact the policies of israel are inhumane, apartheid and illegal (such as the amnesty reports of the 2009 atrocities which I posted a link to earlier) - based on witness statements and fact finding missions, the accounts of people on the ground, not conjecture and definitely no sign of 'lies'. This thing you call 'israel hate' is a matter of giving people who are palestinian their human rights; south africa were also despised for their apartheid policies - and therefore they had to change.

I had a search for an example of karenins answering a lie. I think this may be the sort of thing she means:

"as I said, Israel cannot be apartheid. its the only place in the middle east where there is racial and religious equality. In fact, the man elected to preside over the upcoming Israeli elections is actually an arab!"

So, in this example, does karenins think that it is a lie to say that Israel has an apartheid-like structure? And that her statement disproves it?

It is certainly a much-argued topic.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11192479/Palestinian-apartheid-bus-row-escalates-as-Israeli-minister-Moshe-Yaalon-ordered-explain-ban.html

electronicintifada.net/content/south-african-study-israel-practicing-apartheid-and-colonialism/3432

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

www.seamac.org/equalrights.htm

jewishvoiceforpeace.org/content/waging-peace-archbishop-desmond-tutu-delivers-sabeel-conference-keynote

Does the fact that karenins disagrees make it a lie? Does her denial prove it to be a lie? Does she know more about Apartheid than Archbishop Tutu?

On all counts, I think not.

There are seven threads.

your repetitive israel bashing and blinkered refusal to see there is any other way but your own is exhausting.

as I said earlier, to state that those who stand for israel are bots is revolting and yet another lie.

seven threads of israel hate. ugh.

kareninsgirl

Are you able to conceive of the possibility that a person who is committed to the right of Israel to exist may also be committed to the right of Palestine to exist?

Are you able to conceive of the possibility that a person who is opposed to wicked and inhumane behaviour may criticise it simply because they are opposed to wicked and inhumane behaviour, and not because they have taken a dislike to one or other race, religion or ethnic group?

I think this palestinian bloke would define his treatment at the hands of israel as apartheid; imagine not being allowed to see your child for a single day of his life, and then to be denied a visit to your son's funeral - how horribly unjust.

www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.632171?v=FEC7BD2FE2B994442CED09ED54806720

Imagine the degradation you have to suffer if you're a palestinian farmer and have to navigate past an ugly racist apartheid wall to get to your land (racist is the israeli charity b'tselem's word) :

electronicintifada.net/content/btselem-permit-system-cross-separation-barrier-racist/1729

Amazingly some on this forum keep asking why oh why do palestinians build tunnels not schools - did you consider that tunnels are a means of obtaining basic food.. very much needed in the absence of a regime in israel that deigns to provide permission to farmers to tend to their own crops...

Yes pigletjohn.

And thank you for showing the Jon Snow video again - it was long due on these later threads. It was Jon Snow's reports and MN threads and twitter that alerted me to this- how social media has changed the game here!? I'm white British - I have no 'axe' to grind on either side, I have no loyalties. In fact I had always been pro-Israel prior to the 2006 Lebanon crisis- another time the IDF bombing the shit out of civilians. I just can't stand the inequality and the one-sided military force. It's not right, and there's no justice here.

The seven threads are quite informative, lots of discussion & information on everything israel is doing wrong. Based on facts. If they were nasty threads mumsnet would have binned posts (as they have had to from hasbarists on this thread).

on the subject of the tunnels, a holocaust survivor (starts about 1:25) has an opinion.

I have not yet managed to find a person who is in favour of Israel's illegal blockade who will try to justify why Gazans are forbidden to import jam. It is one of the many basic items that were smuggled in through the tunnels because Israel chose to block them.

I very much agree with Gabor Mate, and the commentator there. That's a powerful clip. I feel great empathy with both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people. Just - you know stop killing people. And that has to start with the nation supported by major world superpowers stopping using their superior military force over an occupied territory of unarmed civilians.

Hello Nipper

Do you still claim that the children, who were shelled by an Israeli gunboat while playing football on a beach, were victims of Palestinian rockets?

You have been strangely reluctant to substantiate your astonishing allegation.

There was a meeting in Switzerland today, requested by Palestinians. Israel tried to convince the Big European countries to boycott the conference and failed. 126 states attended. 498 votes against 88 votes at the European parliament to recognise a Palestinian state. Another great victory!Netanyahu invoked the holocaust (quoted from the Guardian)