Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

just marking place as i need to back away from the computer before my head explodes but will be back later.

I've only lurked but thought I would post a list of companies to boycott
quadraro.deviantart.com/art/Boycott-Israeli-Goods-255187450

The issues are complex - but i just can't bear to see children dying.

its all very complex and I wish for peace and soldiers to be left too it - if only we could evacuate the children of gaza.

Thanks, AndHarry. Just got a message from Mumsnet saying they're looking into the new joiners. Fingers crossed they can identify what's going on.

Thanks andharry

Thank you for the thread. Can I request that if anyone sees suspicious activity to report it and not engage. Engaging simply derails the thread.

What is the time difference between the UK and Israel? Yesterday we had a suspicious influx after about 3 pm.

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I think it's disgusting, by the way, that because we now have a handful of other pro Israel posters amongst a sea of anti Israel posters that is seen as suspicious. This is a public forum. Why not wonder about the new posters who are voicing anti Israel rhetoric? I'm finding this thread very uncomfortable to be on but am compelled to stay in order to provide balance.

It is absolutely disgusting how all the hatred has come out into the open. Last time there was all this antisemitism, the Jews had no one to fight for them. Now they have.

Quite disturbing, the way some folk here assume that everything they see in the media is accurate. The media don't report when for instance some Hamas missiles aiming for Israel fall short, and end up exploding in Gaza homes and hospitals and schools. This has now happened a few times.

Also bizarre how so many people who have never set foot in Gaza or Israel, feel they know better than the people out there. If Israel actually wanted to do what some of you claim, she could have done it in two minutes and totally eliminated the threat to her people. She has the fire power to do it.

Instead, the IDF is trying so hard to only take out Hamas bases where there are no innocents, they actually delay operations and risk the lives of Israelis while they text and phone Gazans to BEG them to escape before a strike.

I'm still waiting for someone to name one other army on the planet that does this - none of you have, and none of you can.

How dare you sit in your comfy homes while Israelis are killed and maimed for YEARS by these terrorists, and then come on here and condemn Israel for finally, finally responding.

Good job you weren't making policy in WW2 - would you have sat there and wrung your hands over the bombing of Dresden and other German targets, and complain that Britain were being 'like nazis' for trying to beat an enemy???

The General Security Service interrogated several senior Hamas terrorists and it became clear that all 45 tunnels they had dug reached populated areas.

Pictures were released and were shown on the Israeli news how these tunnels pass underneath people’s homes.
See the link for pictures of the “underground city of Gaza”.
cryptome.org/2014-info/gaza-ugi/gaza-ugi.htm

Hamas planned on Erev Rosh Hashana (the Jewish New Year) to use the tunnels and enter directly into dining rooms of all populated areas in the south. Each tunnel would accommodate 200 terrorists who were to kill all the Jews.

This was the plan for a Mega attack in order to achieve control over all these areas in the Gaza perimeter.

If you posted your own thoughts rather than sprouting pro Israeli propaganda someone might listen. Its the same rubbish time and time again, human shields, they started it, we have a right to defend ourselves
Its boring now because its been proved wrong.

timbucktoo. do you hate jews?

Of course not. I don't like constant justification for mass murder

To the pro-Israelis, of course you should put your side across but the problem for me is that I have not seen one Israel supporter express any genuine regret for the massive loss of young and innocent lives. It is impossible to truly engage in meaningful dialogue with people who deny the reality. The UN are not lying, the BBC and Channel 4 are not lying. The only reason Israel is getting away with it is thanks to US support. You may keep going with your arrogant and heartless rhetoric but all that comes through is that actually these actions and indefensible.

are indefensible. Your logic and reasoning a flawed.

are you against the kidnapping and murder of the 3 boys that started this terrible disaster? are you against the thousands of rockets fired at civilians in Israel?

I have said many times over all 4 threads now how terrible I think any loss of innocent life is. And I am pro Israel. I cannot bear the fact that there are innocent lives being taken. But I also know that Israel is trying its best to warn people in gaza about the strikes, telling them to get out, but that Hamas, as it always has done, is getting them to stay put in order to cause as much outrage as possible

saadia. i am absolutely horrified that innocent civilians have died in Gaza, and am genuinely sorry and regret any loss of life or injury to all the innocent victims in this war.

The "warnings" are not working, perhaps they should try a different strategy. Or perhaps they don't care that the warnings are not working.

The warnings are working. It's just that the people of gaza are being urged to stay put to sacrifice themselves by Hamas.

The situation is awful.

Three Israeli teens were kidnapped & murdered in the West Bank
In response, Israel launched a raid in search of those teens on the West Bank
The raid resulted in nearly a dozen Palestinian deaths, arresting hundreds and seizing property of Palestinians
Hamas denied any involvement in the kidnapping &killing of the three Israeli teens
ISIS claimed responsibility of the death of those three teens
17 year old Mohammad Abu Khdair was kidnapped, tortured and burned alive from the Shu’fat, Jerusalem neighborhood by Israeli settlers in a revenge killing
Nearly ten more Palestinian children were rescued in revenge and lynch attacks by Israeli settlers
15 year old Tarik Abu Khdair, an American Palestinian and cousin of slain Mohammad was nearly beaten to death by Israeli border police
Protests erupted in Shu’fat, a Palestinian neighborhood in Jerusalem in response to Abu Khdair’s murder
Protests erupted across most Palestinian neighborhoods & cities in response to Abu Khdair’s murder
Israeli lawmakers call for a genocide of Arabs in response to murder of three Israeli teens
Facebook pages were created by IDF soldiers and Israeli citizens calling for genocide of Arabs
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calls for vengeance for the death of Israeli teens on Hamas
Despite having no evidence that Hamas committed this crime, this tragic incident was used as an excuse by the Israeli army to launch its dragnet across Gaza
It’s still unclear who started the rocket fire, Hamas or Israel?

unfortunately media not telling us, how these people murdering their own children for being strong characters and not following their own religion, are we living with freedom, and free choice? Don't think so as have so many evidence around. Girls are at age of 11 or even less been sold to marriage, or I should call it more clearly but pedophiles ideology....

Just seen that several South American countries have withdrawn their ambassadors from Tel Aviv - glad that someone is taking a stand.

IsraeliArab I would love to hear more firsthand information from you about what is like being an Arab in Israel.

Kareninsgirl - I watched that Son of Hamas video and have no liking whatsoever for Hamas and it is so difficult especially when EU for example won't enter into discussions with them. I fear that many young people will just be so filled with hatred now and will have few prospects in Gaza. I have in the past tended to see things more from Israeli perspective given family connections but just feel that the conflict is so futile which is why I disagree with Israel's actions at the moment even if I understand the motivation.
Where did Cast Lead get them other than back to doing the same thing five years later?